NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Pete Buttigieg

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:Welcome back. Democratic presidential candidates face their own dilemma. Do they argue that whatever differences voters have with them, President Trump needs to go because he's unfit for office, essentially the Biden message? Or is restoration and preservation of the Obama legacy simply not enough? Should the right response to the election of Trump be to campaign on new and bolder ideas. Mayor Pete Buttigieg joins me now from Freedom, New Hampshire. Mayor Buttigieg, good to see you again. And let me just dive right into that question but ask it this way: this was a week where the president certainly had some erratic moments. As you know, many voters have that safe harbor mentality, especially during weeks like this. This strikes me as particularly challenging for any candidate not named Joe Biden, any candidate that wasn't a former vice president. How do you talk to those voters?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:Well, I guess what I would say is this: the president is certainly a problem, a big one. But he's not the only problem. Ask yourself how a guy like this ever got within cheating distance of the Oval Office in the first place. I would argue that doesn't happen unless the country's already in a kind of crisis. And we see it in the fact that for pretty much as long as I've been alive, even when the economy has been growing, and quickly, most Americans haven't been getting ahead. One of many reasons why in places like the industrial Midwest, where I live, back to normal is not going to be a good enough message because normal was not good enough. Of course there are huge problems with this president, especially now. We're not even debating whether the President is telling the truth or making sense. We're just debating whether it matters when he doesn't. And it does matter, as you can see by the way he has created turmoil in global markets with his words. But even so, getting rid of the President is not enough. We need to replace this presidency with something better that actually works for Americans or somebody even more unstable could gain power and emerge in our politics in the future.

CHUCK TODD:Well, as you know, the counter argument is going to be, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Trump was a big risk. Trump was somebody we'd never tried before." You're asking voters to take a big risk in that sense too. It is -- I understand exactly the message you're trying to send there, but that is the other side of that message, which is, "Wait a minute. He was new and different. You're new and different."

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:Yeah, there's some very different versions of what new and different means.

CHUCK TODD:Fair enough.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:My presidency will be about making sure Americans can actually get ahead, that when we have a rising tide it actually lifts all boats, in addition to restoring American credibility around the world. We need to explain what we're going to do to make your life better. And the less we're talking about him, the more we're talking about you. Good news is, this is winning turf for Democrats. Remember the American people, broadly speaking, agree with us on wages, agree with us on healthcare, agree with us for sure on gun safety. When it comes to the things that are actually going to decide whether your kid is safe at school, whether your income is going up, whether your healthcare is secure, whether there's a good outlook in your everyday life, that's a winning message for us. And we need to explain what we're going to do on that. Out with the old, compelling though it is, is not a complete message.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to talk about some national security issues. Because I think as Politico pointed out earlier this week, Democrats aren't going to just be able to unwind the Trump foreign policy, if you're going to try to put it back. I mean, look at -- if you're in favor of a two-state solution with the Israelis and the Palestinians that feels like that's taken 10 or 15 steps back, no matter who the next president is. Ditto with China or other countries not sure, okay, they can cut a deal with this president but given what happened with the last president how can I trust this deal? How much harder is it going to be for the next president to do any sort of trade pact or multi-country pact? And how do you reassure these countries of that if you're president?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:My focus as president will be restoring U.S. credibility by pulling together in the name of values that are American values, that our country at its best has upheld and advanced but are also universal shared values. That means standing with the people of Hong Kong when they're insisting on Democracy. It means leading on climate diplomacy. Remember, part of the U.S. isolation on display this week is that at the G7 you have world leaders coming together, among other things, talking about what they're going to do on climate. And you've got an American president who doesn't even believe it's a problem. The U.S. could be restoring our credibility by leading the world in facing some of the biggest challenges we have, from issues like climate to stability in the global economy, to advancing human rights and democracy, to things like dealing with terrorist threats, be they from Islamist extremism or from the rising tide of white nationalist violence that is a problem not only here in the United States but around the world.

CHUCK TODD:Let's dive straight into China. You're president, you're going to inherit, perhaps, a bunch of tariffs that are -- have been slapped on China. Is your initial instinct to just remove all the tariffs and then try to start anew with China? And would you use the issue of Hong Kong as part of the negotiations in any trade pact?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:Certainly the people of Hong Kong need to know that we stand with them. And China needs to know that if they're going to perpetrate a repeat of Tiananmen, they will be isolated from the Democratic world. That being said, we can find areas of cooperation, from climate to security to trade. It just has to be something that actually works for Americans. Now obviously the current strategy, I'm not even sure you can call it a strategy, let's say the current pattern of poking China in the eye with tariffs and seeing what will happen, isn't working. It is crushing American soybean farmers, other farmers, and American consumers. You know, we are already estimated to be paying 500 to $1,000 more, Americans, this year because of this trade war. And I don't know where we're supposed to get that kind of money. The president says he's going to delay some of it till Christmas, but what are we supposed to do after Christmas? My focus, in terms of a China strategy, will be identifying areas of mutual advantage and holding them accountable for the problems that we've seen created by things like currency manipulation. Just realize that they're not going to change their fundamental economic model because we poked them with a few tariffs. That's why the ultimate way to stay ahead of China is to invest in our domestic competitiveness. Now unfortunately, we're doing the reverse, under-investing in everything from education to infrastructure here at home.

CHUCK TODD:President Obama thought one of the ways to confront China was to create an Asian-Pacific trade pact. I know TPP became this sort of red herring, if you will, or litmus test among Democratic primary voters. Let me ask you a question of it this way: I know where you stand on TPP, but putting together a non-China Asian-Pacific alliance, is that the best way to confront China?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:It's certainly part of how we can set global economic cooperation on terms that make sense for us, instead of allowing them to be dictated by China. The problem with TPP had to do with the fact that basic standards that we have on corporate governance and environmental and labor expectations weren't being met. Yes, we can do it. But again, the fundamental way to stay ahead of China is to invest in our own competitiveness. If they're investing billions more in artificial intelligence according to a national strategy than we are, then there is a very strong likelihood that they will be running circles around us by the time I have kids who are old enough to vote. I don't want to see artificial intelligence in the world being led by China, knowing that their vision is about using technology for the perfection of dictatorship, very different from how these things will work in American hands. We've got to invest in the future and do it in a way that is as systematic or more as the Chinese. I don't think anybody believes that this administration's approach on anything right now is systematic.

CHUCK TODD:Let me make the final question about the state, state of your campaign. You took off like a rocket ship. Obviously like, you know, these things ebb and flow and I know that. What do you say to your supporters who are saying, "okay, when are you going to take off like a rocket ship again?" How much patience should they have? A lot of people are starting to ask, "okay, is this a campaign to prepare to run for president another time?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:It is not. I am in it to win and you do not do something like run for president, at least I don't, unless you are aiming to go all the way. We have exceeded every expectation from the beginning of this campaign when we started with literally four people in a room in South Bend in January and a mailing list smaller than most congressional campaigns. Where we are now is that we have arrived in the top tier of candidates but this is where you really see how much this is a distance run and knowing that so much is decided in literally in the last few days of the caucus and primary campaigns. We've got to make sure the stretch from now until then, that key six months or so, where the unglamorous work is happening of organizers on the ground building the relationships that are going to build up this campaign. That's our focus, even as there are these day-to-day ups and downs.

CHUCK TODD:Are you -- there's been a lot of hand-wringing over the DNC's handling of the debate process and what it takes to meet, not meet it. How do you feel about how the DNC has handled this?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:You know, it's mission impossible to set up a debate structure that everybody can agree on and be happy with. What I know is that each debate represents an opportunity for our campaign to present our vision and for me to explain why my presidency would be different -- why my approach on health care makes more sense, why what I will do with the U.S. in the world as president is the right way forward. And we are going to focus on our plan, work the plan, and accept the rules as they come to us.

CHUCK TODD:Mayor Pete Buttigieg, coming to us from Freedom, New Hampshire. I have to say I had not -- I thought I had known every single town in New Hampshire. I think this is the first time we've had a dateline from Freedom, New Hampshire. Anyway, Mayor Pete Buttigieg stay safe.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:It's really nice out here.

CHUCK TODD:Yeah. Stay safe on the trail. And thanks for coming on and sharing your views.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG:Thank you.

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