CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Katie Porter

Interview

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Joining us, California Democratic Congresswoman Katie Porter. She's a member of two committees with an interest in this, Oversight and Financial Services. Also with us tonight, CNN national security analyst and former Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security, Juliet Kayyem.

[20:10:16]

Congresswoman Porter, thanks for being with us. As a consumer protection attorney and an expert in bankruptcy law, when you look at "The Times" has reported on Trump's finances, what jumps out at you on a political level, legal level and moral level?

REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): Well, one of the things that jumps out at me is that this is somebody who has failed to give to their country. This is somebody who is a tax dodger, as well as a draft dodger. He gives nothing to his country, and yet he ridicules the men and women who put their lives on the line and make the ultimate sacrifices as losers.

COOPER: Do you see illegality in, you know, him paying Ivanka Trump, giving her hundreds of thousand, $700,000.00 or so as a consultant while she is actually an employee of the Trump Organization. I assume that's a way to pass money to his child in a way that's not taxed. She gets the money and he gets to take a tax deduction?

PORTER: Well, I think there's just such a huge gulf between these kinds of tax gains and tax tricks. And the typical constituent, the typical American family who is simply trying to write a check to cover their taxes.

And this is a President who in 2019, passed a tax law that contains more loopholes exactly like this for the wealthy, even as an increased taxes on many families, including those in Orange County, who I represent.

COOPER: Juliette. I mean, the President apparently has personally guaranteed about $421 million in debt that's coming due in the coming years, unprecedented for a sitting President. Just -- if he has another four years there.

I mean, there's no telling that pressure to make money, how that is going to influence U.S. foreign policy, national security policy and relationships with, you know, he has business in Turkey. And was that one of the reasons why he abandoned the Kurds and, you know allowed right after a brief phone call from Erdogan, allowed the Turkey to just wipe the Kurds away from the north?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. I don't think this is a story about taxes, actually, and the Congresswoman is correct to say, you know, the potential for tax loopholes or abuse, but this is really a story about his debt, and only his debt.

And the reason why is because generally, in national security, you would never hire someone. Let's say he was coming in as an Intel analyst, you would never hire anyone with excessive debt and that's for two reasons. One is, they're desperate, right? They will do things to pay off that debt.

The other is more important, as the Proverbs tell us, the borrower is the servant of the lender. And it is that the lender, whoever it is, and it could be Deutsche Bank, it could be a foreign country, it could be a dictator, it could be another family member, who knows, but the lender has undue influence over the borrower. And that's what we don't know at this stage.

So it could very well be that Deutsche Bank holds most of this $400 million and it's not Russia. I think what we have to think about is what countries are willing to lower the debts that Trump has in sort of in a bargain with Trump.

In other words, it doesn't matter to me if Deutsche Bank has the $400 million debt with Trump, it is other countries or people willing to pay off the debt for Trump.

He's in a world of trouble and he needs people to bring down that debt because he is going to be a private citizen, potentially, in just a few months.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, Congresswoman, you know, it raises questions about U.S. really -- you know, why did President Trump go repeatedly so easy on Saudi Arabia's leader in after the killing of "The Washington Post" reporter in the -- you know, in the consulate there?

PORTER: No, it absolutely raises those questions of national security. But as someone who sits on the Financial Services Committee and the Oversight Committee, I am concerned about the President's relationship with Deutsche Bank as well, because he's got a Secretary of the Treasury that he has appointed, Federal Reserve people.

He is pushing a tax law that's the benefit of those big banks, who he owes. This is the $421 million question, what will President Trump do to please his creditors, whether they're foreign entities or domestic?

COOPER: Congresswoman, what would you like to see from -- you know, a congressional standpoint, being done in terms of looking into this?

PORTER: Yes, I am a bill called the Transparency in Executive Branch Finances Act, which would require the President, the Vice President and other high ranking officials to make their tax returns public, and to do so for the five previous years. And I think this is something that frankly, the American public should have had access to before the 2016 election.

I'm glad they're getting this information before 2020 so that they can use it in their decision making.

COOPER: And Juliette, I mean, I guess, you know, if he gets another term in office and debts come do, there's a whole a whole set of challenges about what is he do to try to get bailed out?

[20:15:12]

KAYYEM: Right. That's exactly right. And we wouldn't have much transparency likely while he is President. So his sort of, let's just say, what's the right word? His eagerness to stay in power, to the extent that he is essentially threatening or having people threaten violence that there won't be a peaceful transition is really -- it's scary, but it's also just filled with desperation.

And so the last couple of weeks begin to make sense to us. This is someone who is going to have significant liabilities once he is a private citizen, and we don't know who owns those liabilities.

If he remains President, he may be willing to sell those liabilities to countries whose interests are not the United States. I guess that's, you know, that's my last point is we have not talked about the United States interests, they are not necessarily aligned with the Trump families. And so for me, that is the sort of takeaway of a massive review of all

these taxes is, this is a person, this is a President who is tied to something. We don't know who, but it's a creditor, and a creditor has a lot of influence over the debtor, especially given the amount of money that we're talking about.

COOPER: Congresswoman Porter, I'm sure, you know, many Members of Congress are going to say what they want to do to hold the President accountable. Congress has not been able to hold the President accountable for much of anything. Why will this be any different?

PORTER: Well, hopefully, he'll step up. This is an issue of political pressure as well, of the American people making this demand for his tax returns and continuing to ask the tough questions of this President about how his financial interest is causing him to act in this presidency in his self-interest.

And you know, I think the American public really is hurt when they have a President who dodges one of the fundamental obligations of citizenship, which is to be part of providing for the things that we all need -- schools and roads and military safety.

This is a President who claims that he is really committed to rebuilding the American military, and yet has not paid one penny in income tax for doing so in 10 of the last 15 years.

This is, as we have servicemen and women who are struggling to make ends meet around the country.

COOPER: Congresswoman Porter, appreciate your time. We've got to go Juliette. Appreciate you being with us.

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