ABC "This Week With George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript

Interview

ABC "This Week With George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hello again. President Bush put himself at the center of the presidential campaign this week when he told the Israeli parliament that those who want to negotiate with terrorists are taking the false comfort of appeasement. That drew an angry response from Barack Obama and just about every leading Democrat, including our first guest, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Joe Biden. Welcome back to "This Week."

BIDEN: I am delighted to be here. Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to get to that in a second, but first, we saw that news yesterday out of Boston. Senator Kennedy had a seizure.

You served with him for more than 35 years now. What can you share with us this morning?

BIDEN: Not a lot, George. I called Vicky, his wife. I did not get her, but I spoke with two of my colleagues who did speak with her.

She sounded, according to them, very optimistic. The first reports about a massive stroke turned out not to be accurate.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's not true, yes.,

BIDEN: Not true. And so -- but I must tell you, I'm optimistic, but that's just based on my native optimism. I don't have any reason to know exactly what the situation is, other than what I've read.

I've not spoken to her. And I know, having been at the other end of that, being the guy in the room, I know what a burden on families it is when everybody is calling wanting to know how things are. So I spoke with Barack Obama, who spoke with her, and with Chris Dodd, who spoke with her. And they both tell me they -- she seemed optimistic.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's good news.

Let's get back to President Bush. You had a very angry response to that speech he gave in the Knesset. One word you used is malarkey.

Another one we can't use, but it sure seemed like President Bush struck a nerve there.

BIDEN: He did. It was so outrageous, George. You know, he said we ought to call things for what they are. Well, what this is is raw, raw politics, demeaning to the presidency of the United States of America. I mean, literally, imagine what our friends, even our foes in the capitals from Paris to Tokyo thought, seeing the president of the United States in the Knesset, attacking another senator.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He says he wasn't doing that.

BIDEN: Well, I'm (inaudible), when told by CNN that after it was over, that his staff got the press together and said this is about Barack. Here's a guy -- if you take any one sentence in isolation, it makes sense. You string them together, and he starts off and he talks about how, first of all, he's talking about Iraq; then he starts talking about how one U.S. senator -- he's referring to Borah, I don't really know that...

STEPHANOPOULOS: In 1939.

BIDEN: In 1939, and then -- anytime you inject anywhere, but particularly in the Israeli Knesset the Holocaust, Nazi tanks crossing into Poland, Hitler -- I mean, it's just -- it was just above and beyond anything. I mean, everyone from Pat Buchanan to Republicans who -- and I respect Pat -- that I respect, found it stunning.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How about the substance of what the president was trying to say? Because John McCain picked up on it. He said basically, you know, we have a big difference here. Barack Obama wants unconditional talks with the Iranians. We don't. Here's what Senator McCain said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Talking, not even with soaring rhetoric, unconditional, and unconditional meetings with the man who calls Israel a stinking corpse, and arms terrorist who kills Americans, will not convince Iran to give up its nuclear program. It is reckless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Obama has said that his State Department, his National Security Council would engage in unconditional talks with the Iranians.

BIDEN: Let's put this in perspective. The reason why we'd be in so much trouble if John McCain were president -- and I love him -- is because of what you just heard.

What's the alternative to talking with a country that's building a nuclear weapons, attempting to, that in fact is helping kill Americans by supporting elements in Iraq that are killing Americans?

You either talk; you go to war; or you maintain the status quo.

Now, let's talk about talking. President Bush, the White House, called me, several years ago, told me Air Force Two was waiting for me at Andrews Air Force Base; would I get on the plane and go meet with Gadhafi, a real known terrorist, personally, a terrorist -- personally responsible for killing kids at the school I went to, Syracuse University, blowing up that Pan Am flight.

The president of the United States asked me to go. He cut a deal with Gadhafi, directly. It was a smart thing to do. He gave up his nuclear weapons, Gadhafi.

What's the second thing?

We're in Korea, right now, George. You want to put the hit list to the worst guys in the world?

How about Kim Jong Il?

They have proliferated nuclear technology, put us in jeopardy, and other nations around the world. What is the president of the United States doing, writing letters saying, "Dear Mr. Chairman" -- referring to him.

They've cut a deal. They've cut a deal. The president of the United States of America, last time I was in Iraq, was trying to set up, and recently asked for a third meeting with the Iranians, to talk with them about what's going on in Iraq.

This is sophistry. This is ridiculous.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like you're calling it hypocrisy.

BIDEN: Well, I should -- I'm trying to be more polite, but I shouldn't be. It was ridiculous. This is president -- this is pure, unadulterated politics.

And the last point I'll make -- maybe the president doesn't know

-- I'll be a smart guy, here -- maybe he doesn't know what's going on in his own administration. But as soon as he gets back, he should fire, as appeasers, Gates...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary of defense?

BIDEN: ... and Rice -- secretary of defense and secretary of state.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why?

BIDEN: Because they both -- Gates as recently as a week ago -- said, we've got to sit down and talk with the Iranian directly.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Did the president make a mistake, here, do you believe?

BIDEN: No, I think it's -- look, the thing that bothers me the most, I guess, is this emerging pattern here.

John, a couple weeks ago -- or Senator McCain, a couple weeks ago, using the phrase -- I'm paraphrasing -- well, Hamas likes Barack Obama and Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua likes Barack Obama, so you draw your own conclusions.

And then president does this hit in the Knesset.

This whole thing -- look, they have a -- they're using rhetoric to masquerade as a policy.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it sounds like what they're trying to do is to hit on the notion that Senator Obama is inexperienced, is not ready for this job.

And even last year, during the presidential campaign, you had questions about Senator Obama's experience.

Here you were, at last August's debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You were asked, "Is he ready?"

You said, "I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the- job-training."

BIDEN: I think that -- I stand by the statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you still stand by the statement?

BIDEN: That was a year ago. He's learned a hell of a lot.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So he's developed...

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... on the campaign trail?

BIDEN: Well, what we're talking about, here, is that he has repeatedly, since then, said he would not negotiate unconditionally -- meaning him sitting down alone, right off the bat, with these leaders.

He's talked about his secretary of state, his secretary of defense.

As a matter of fact, his statements he's using have mirrored the statements the rest of us have been talking about. This is a fellow who, I think, shorthanded an answer that, in fact, was the wrong answer, in my view, saying, I would, within the first year -- it implied he'd personally sit down with anybody who wanted to sit down with him.

That's not what he meant. That's not what he has said, since then, for the last year, or thereabouts. And so, I think, that he's fully capable of understanding what's going on.

To put this in context, the policy that Bush has pursued, and McCain will continue, has been an abject failure. We are weaker in the Middle East. We are weaker around the world. Terrorism is stronger than it ever was. Iran is closer to a bomb.

Just by any measure -- any measure -- what has their policy wrought? A disaster -- it's been an absolute disaster.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You mentioned that you talked to Senator Obama.

Why haven't you endorse him?

BIDEN: Well, because I made a commitment to both of them, literally, George. I know it's, kind of, old-fashioned. But you can ask either of them when you interview them. They each asked me to be part of their campaign, right after I got out of the campaign.

I said, I will make one commitment; I will not endorse either one of you, and I'll be available to both of you.

I talked to Hillary, too. I talked to Hillary yesterday. I talk to them frequently, any time they want my opinion on anything. I didn't make it through Iowa, so what do I know?

BIDEN: But they call me, and I -- I just made a personal promise.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you talked to both of them yesterday. Do you think there's any chance and how quickly can you bring these two together and get the Democratic Party unified?

BIDEN: Immediately. I don't think you're going to see a heartbeat when these primaries are over, if in fact Hillary does not either amass the popular vote in order to be able to convince the remaining superdelegates...

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not going to happen. Barack Obama is the nominee, right?

BIDEN: Let me -- I'm not going to -- I'm not going to say that until it's over. This woman has run a good campaign. The primaries will be over by June 3rd. Let her run her full campaign. And I am absolutely, positively, thoroughly confident that if Barack is the winner, she will embrace him and she'll campaign like hell for him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Should he pick her?

BIDEN: That's a judgment he's got to make. I mean, look, I don't know whether Hillary would want to do that. Look, no matter what happens in this campaign -- let's assume Hillary is not the nominee -- she's still the most powerful woman in American politics.

Now, I know the speaker might not like me saying that, who's a powerful, capable woman.

STEPHANOPOULOS: She might take issue with that, you're right.

BIDEN: She might take issue with that. But this is a woman who has demonstrated beyond anybody's doubt that she has the gumption and the brains and the tenacity and the stamina to take on anything, and she is going to play a major, major role in American politics no matter what the outcome is.

STEPHANOPOULOS: David Yepsen of the Des Moines Register thinks you should be the choice. Here's what he wrote. He said, "He has grit and gravitas. He's not rich. He's not known as a womanizer. He would appeal to white men, who, despite all the chatter about women, minorities and young voters, are a constituency Democrats need to do more to attract."

BIDEN: Well, where were you, David, when I was running out there?

STEPHANOPOULOS: He was pretty good...

BIDEN: He really was. That said, there's going to be all kinds of speculation. I'm up for reelection. I'm running for reelection to the United States Senate. I'm chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. I've made it clear I'm not looking for that job, and...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you won't turn it down.

BIDEN: Well, you know, anybody that's asked by their nominee to be their running mate, you'd have to consider it. How could you just blow it off? You can't do that. And -- but I don't anticipate that happening.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Biden, thanks very much for your time.

BIDEN: Thanks an awful lot for having me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Take care.

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