CNNFN Lou Dobbs Tonight-Transcript

CNNFN

SHOW: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT 06:00 PM Eastern Standard Time

July 23, 2004 Friday

GUESTS: Stephen Flynn, Ron Brownstein, Mark Morrison, John Culbertson, Xavier Becerra Stephen Flynn, Ron Brownstein, Mark Morrison, John Culbertson, Xavier Becerra

BYLINE: Casey Wian, Bill Tucker, Christine Romans, Kitty Pilgrim, Kelli Arena, Sean Callebs, Bob Franken, Elaine Quijano, Suzanne Malveaux, William Schneider Casey Wian, Bill Tucker, Christine Romans, Kitty Pilgrim, Kelli Arena, Sean Callebs, Bob Franken, Elaine Quijano, Suzanne Malveaux, William Schneider

HIGHLIGHT:
A chilling warning was given that al Qaeda is planning another attack against the United States. The author of a book on security says America is vulnerable. The race for president is very tight. Today, President Bush addressed the National Urban League. A chilling warning was given that al Qaeda is planning another attack against the United States. The author of a book on security says America is vulnerable. The race for president is very tight. Today, President Bush addressed the National Urban League.

BODY:

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PILGRIM: In "Broken Borders" tonight, the controversy over whether immigrants and illegal aliens should be allowed to use Mexican identification cards to open bank accounts in this country. Now, this week the House Appropriations Committee upheld a measure that would prevent banks from accepting the Matricula Consular cards.

I'm joined now by two members of Congress with sharply different views on the matter. Congressman John Culbertson of Texas introduced the House amendment. And he says, accepting Mexican I.D. cards in this country could threaten our national security.

But Congressman Xavier Becerra of California says without the cards, many immigrants would have no identification at all.

Now both of them join us from Washington. And thanks very much for being with us.

Congressman Culbertson, let's start with you. You do think it's a threat to national security. Why?

REP. JOHN CULBERTSON, ® TEXAS: Well, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and the Department of Homeland Security have all concluded that the matriculate consular is not a reliable form of identification, because it is based on an unreliable Mexican birth certificate which cannot be verified. They're easy to forge. And there's no central data base in Mexico.

And we're at war. And you cannot win the war on terror until we protect our borders and know who's coming into the country. And I know my colleague from California shares my focus on winning the war on terror and properly identifying people coming into the United States. So my amendment is designed to eliminate this regulation, eliminate this form of identification that all the federal law enforcement authorities say is unreliable.

And I filed this amendment because I was informed by federal law enforcement authorities in the Houston area that there's a growing number of Middle Eastern, very suspicious people coming over from-with Islamic surnames, changing their surnames to Hispanic surnames, entering the country under a false Hispanic surname.

These are from Islamic countries with known terrorist connections. And these individuals, using these false Hispanic names are disappearing in small rural areas in South Texas and across the country. And that's a real source of concern. And we've got to flush them out.

PILGRIM: Congressman Becerra, compelling argument. And many do say these are documents of low reliability, these Mexican birth certificates, because they can be forged. What's your answer to this?

REP. XAVIER BECERRA, (D) CALIFORNIA: Kitty, I think what John is trying to do is-he has the right intent, unfortunately, it has the wrong application. Because rather than make us safer, it will probably make us less safe, because these are individuals who are getting these consular I.D.s, which by the way, is about as good as any I.D. we get in any state, it relies on a birth certificate, for example, to be able to secure that I.D.

If we don't give them I.D.s and, therefore, they walk around this country without any form of legitimate I.D., then we can't track them at all. And they go further underground. What we need to do is understand what the L.A. Police Department, in fact, about 800 police departments around the nation has said, along with this Secretary of Treasury in the Treasury Department have said, and that is, let's get these folks to get some I.D.s. that way we don't have to worry about the fraudulent I.D.s.

Remember that the 9/11 terrorists didn't have a Mexican I.D., they had U.S. I.D.s. So, the problem with fraudulent documents exists whether it's a Mexican birth certificate that's used, or an American birth certificate that's used.

We have to if focus on trying stopping the terrorists. And this actually diverts resources from treasury, from justice, from FBI to doing something that really is not going to make us any safer, because if folks were trying to harm us, are not these folks who are trying to open up a savings, a passbook savings account, or open up a checkbook-checking account for the first time. We really should target those who are trying to infiltrate our borders.

We inspect 2 percent of all the cargo containers that come into this country. These are massive containers. Who knows what they could contain. And we only inspect 2 percent of those that are filled. Those that are empty don't even get opened. We have a lot to do. This is going to divert resources and really not make us any safer.

CULBERSTON: The issue today is, we are at war with individuals trying to sneak into the country under false identities. And I have new information from federal law enforcement officials in Texas who are very alarmed by a growing trend of Islamic individuals coming into the country, changing their Islamic surnames to Hispanic surnames, blending into the thousands of illegal aliens coming into the country.

BECERRA: John, that's...

CULBERTSON: It's a real source of concern. And in a time of war, we've got to identify who these people are and make sure that law enforcement can find them.

And the choice is really, we have to decide whether we come down on the side of the bankers, or we go with law enforcement. When it comes to what is a valid I.D., to open a bank account. And I come down on the side of law enforcement.

BECERRA: The difficulty with the argument there is law enforcement has actually said, please let us have these I.D.s.

CULBERTSON: Local law enforcement.

BECERRA: By the way, the Treasury Department and the White House came out opposed to John's idea, because they believe it will make it more difficult for them not just to enforce regular law enforcement activities, but it also would make it more difficult for them to enforce banking laws.

PILGRIM: Let's talk about this whole issue, because a lot of these people are forced to walk around with cash, because they simply cannot have access to banks. Is that a huge problem?

BECERRA: Not only do they walk around with cash, and are prey to those who wish to abuse them to begin with, but they stay out of the mainstream. We can't track them. Local law enforcement can't identify them very well.

And certainly the FBI can't identify them if they don't have any type of I.D. At least if they're carrying some I.D., we have a basis to track who they really are.

CULBERTSON: A phony I.D...

BECERRA: Without it, you're going to give yourself no chance to really track these folks. And quite honestly, they're not the folks that are trying to infiltrate our power plants, our nuclear power plants, our ports...

(CROSSTALK)

PILGRIM: Let's get Congressman Culbertson in on this.

CULBERTSON: The danger is, the terrorists are hiding among these people. The terrorists we know from law enforcement officials in Texas, we now know that they're seeing a growing number of these individuals who are changing their Islamic surnames to Hispanic, blending into the population.

A phony I.D. and a false name is worse-is a really dangerous situation. And it's important to realize that the United States Department of Homeland Security, the United States Department of Justice and the FBI are all strenuously opposed to the use of this I.D. It's only the Treasury Department and the banks that want to accept this I.D. The White House is split. The administration is split on this, because you've got...

BERCERRA: John, John...

CULBERTSON: Because you've got federal law enforcement on one side and the banks on the others. And I choose to come down on the side of law enforcement in the time of war. We cannot win the war on terror until we protect our borders. And we've simply got to deal with this serious problem.

(CROSSTALK)

BERCERRA: I trust the local law enforcement-I trust those who are telling me that we need to enforce the law every day. The FBI may say they have concerns, but they say they have concerns with all sorts of I.D.s. We don't make ourselves safer by going after folks who are not going to be holding bombs.

CULBERTSON: Well, the bottom line is, we need to get the federal law enforcement officials in the loop on this treasury regulation and we need to repeal this regulation in order to make sure...

(CROSSTALK)

PILGRIM: Gentlemen, I wish we could sort this out...

(CROSSTALK)

PILGRIM: Thank you so much.

We are totally out of time. Not an easy issue. And thank you for helping us consider it. Congressman John Culbertson and Congressman Xavier Becerra, thank you.

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