NBC " The Rachel Maddow Show" - Reproductive Rights

Interview

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Joining us now for the interview is Wisconsin State Senator Jon
Erpenbach, who -- it should be noted -- became a national pin-up senator
for Democrats everywhere in the huge fight over union rights in Wisconsin.

Senator Erpenbach, it`s nice to see you again. Thanks for being here.

STATE SEN. JON ERPENBACH (D), WISCONSIN: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: So, when you threatened all out hell if they moved these
bills tomorrow without a public hearing, what did you mean and why did you
say that?

ERPENBACH: Well, I was really frustrated with the whole process
during the committee hearing because they tried to take the assembly bill
and make it like the Senate bill and saying there was no change at all,
when in fact there was a huge change, what you alluded to earlier, that
certain employers would have to give employees permission to use
contraception under certain scenarios, which to me was very frustrating,
because if the public knew, they would be outraged. And so, the idea of
the all out hell was basically making sure we took our time very concisely
but loudly to let people of Wisconsin know exactly what the Senate
Republicans were up to with this legislation.

MADDOW: Do you think you have just stopped it for the minute, and as
soon as you guys are back in session, they`re going to bring these things
back up in the same way, or -- I mean, it`s not like you have much leverage
right now in the Senate in terms of your actual numbers.

ERPENBACH: No, we really don`t, and I do, in all likelihood, expect
to see something or a similar version of this in January or February, when
we return after tomorrow. There are some people, Rachel, that we deal with
at the Capitol and around the state of Wisconsin, very few people, mind
you, who actually think contraception is a form of abortion. So their
whole goal is to essentially make it as difficult as you possibly can to
get contraception for whatever reason.

And so, I expect the legislation to come back at some point, simply
because you have a minority of the majority party within their own caucus
controlling what`s coming up on the floor and what`s not coming up on the
floor. So, I expect it to come back some time in January.
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MADDOW: Governor Walker has a book coming out, imminently, which is
an I`m running for president book pretty clearly, starting to do the
national rounds, you know. He`s talking to some big-money Republican folks
in New York. I think some time this week. It seems like he`s very much
keeping his options open, at least, for 2016.

When you think about the rest of the country looking at the Scott
Walker experience in Wisconsin, what should the rest of the country know
about that when you consider his governing record?

ERPENBACH: I think the rest of the country should ask Scott Walker
when he visits their state, which apparently, he`s doing an awful lot of
lately, to ask him to get very, very specific where he exactly stands on
the issues. He won the governors race without being too specific. He
said, I`ll create 250,000 jobs. And when people said how, he couldn`t
answer it.

So, on very specific issues, whether it`s reproductive rights, whether
it`s the economy, whether it`s jobs, you name it, ask him to get specific.
What do you mean by that? Don`t be afraid to ask a follow-up question.

His style of governing is basically to divide and conquer, it is
forcing, at least in Wisconsin, everybody to pick a side, for example, on
the collective bargaining issue. And neighbors were torn apart, families
were torn apart. You witnessed it. It was very ugly and we`re still
trying to recover from something like that.

So, rather than govern by consensus as best as you can, he just
basically goes in and divides and con answers. So, I would expect him to
take the same sort of attitude if he ever were to become president, which I
highly doubt is going to happen. I think he likes to keep an eye on the
White House. I don`t think he`ll ever get there, but at the same time,
people need to be aware of Governor Walker and people like Governor Walker.

MADDOW: Wisconsin State Senator Jon Erpenbach, thank you for your
time tonight. This has been -- watching these bills moved in the Senate
and seeing you get louder and louder about it, I knew it was going to end
in an interesting way. Thanks for helping us understand it, sir.

ERPENBACH: All right. Thanks, Rachel.

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