BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
WALLACE: Let me put up a few of the unilateral actions President Obama has taken in recent years. Take a look at this list. February 2011, ordered the Justice Department to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act. June 2012, declared deportation of some illegal immigrants -- deferred, rather, deportation of some illegal immigrants. February 2014, raised the minimum wage for federal contractors. And over the years, repeatedly made dozens of changes to Obamacare.
Congressman Becerra, what is the president's legal authority to take all of these unilateral actions without going back to Congress?
REP. XAVIER BECERRA, D-CALIF.: Well, Chris, first, the list that you showed are all things the American public wants to see, and the president is saying, Congress, if you're not going to do your job of passing the laws to make those things happen --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Wait a minute, Congressman -- wait, wait. The Constitution does not say if it's popular you can exceed your authority.
BECERRA: Let me finish my thought.
WALLACE: It's kind of irrelevant.
BECERRA: The president said, I'm going to do what I can within the confines of the law to make this work. So, the minimum wage increase isn't for all Americans. It's only for federal -- people who work with federal contract.
WALLACE: What is his legal authority to take this action without going back to Congress?
BECERRA: The president has the authority as the executive to implement the laws. If there's a law that says we will pay a federal contractor money, the president can say, OK, federal contractors, you can't gouge your workers because you're getting taxpayer money to do the work. And so, therefore, the president can say, at least pay them the federal minimum wage.
WALLACE: But is he implementing the law?
BECERRA: Absolutely, he's implementing the law.
WALLACE: Or is this more, is he rewriting the law?
BECERRA: No, he's not rewriting it, because he's simply implementing it. He's only doing it where he has the power at the executive for the federal government. He hasn't set a minimum wage for everyone who works for private sector. That would require Congress.
WALLACE: They already have to pay the minimum. He's raised the minimum wage.
GOODLATTE: Chris, if I might --
WALLACE: Go ahead, Chairman Goodlatte.
GOODLATTE: Well, I just want to say these are people working in the private sector, and the fact that their employer has entered into a contract to provide services for the government, but they also may do business with a whole host of other things doesn't give him under the law the power to contract with them and to add a multitude of different conditions, including what they have to pay their employees.
BECERRA: Sure it does, Bob. You know that. Those contractors don't have a right to get taxpayer money. They enter into a contract with the federal government. They know the terms of the contract.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: But they were already getting the federal minimum wage. He raised the wage.
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: He said, if you're going to want to work for the federal government, get a contract from the federal government, you're going to have to pay this minimum wage. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to contract with the federal government.
GOODLATTE: The law doesn't give him that authority.
WALLACE: That's not really the issue. The issue is what gives -- and let's not take that case, let's take all of the things that he has done on ObamaCare. Congress wrote the law. What gives him the legal authority to rewrite the law?
BECERRA: Because you as the executive have the authority and the obligation to make sure laws work. That you act responsibly. If you're going to cross the street --
WALLACE: By whose judgment you act responsibly?
BECERRA: -- just because you see a green light doesn't mean you cross the street. You look both ways before you cross the street.
GOODLATTE: Chris, if I may --
BECERRA: That's what the president is doing. He's saying we're going to implement the law, but we want to make sure it works properly.
WALLACE: Go ahead, Congressman Goodlatte.
GOODLATTE: Chris, if I may, the law, ObamaCare, one of the things the president -- the law says you have fewer than 50 employees, you don't have to comply with the employer mandate in ObamaCare. So, the president now says, well, if you have between 50 and 100. You don't have to comply, now if you have more than 100, you do.
Where does it say in ObamaCare he has the authority to make that legislative decision?
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: -- interpreted law.
GOODLATTE: He needs to go back to the Congress if he wants changes like that.
WALLACE: I want to move along -- I think we've kind of explored this. We certainly haven't settled it.
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: He didn't say you don't have to abide by the law. He said we're going to defer implementation until we're ready to go on that aspect. And that's what small businesses were asking for. Let us be ready.
WALLACE: We've done this few doze times.
BECERRA: He wants to make sure small businesses are ready.
WALLACE: Congressman Goodlatte, the courts have as a rule dismissed these cases saying that Congress doesn't have legal standing and in fact that there are other remedies at Congress' disposal. You could cut funding for the executive branch of the various programs. Ultimately, you could impeach the president.
Chairman Goodlatte, how do you answer that question that you have other remedies? And secondly, even if you go forward and even if the courts accept the suit, by the time it gets all the way through all the legal machinations, Barack Obama will be out of office.
GOODLATTE: Well, first of all, with regard to the powers that the Constitution provides the Congress in its system of checks and balances, there are several. We have the power of legislation, the power of the purse.
We have in the Senate, the power to confirm appointments, which was what the Supreme Court decision was all about. We have the power of oversight, holding hearings.
But we also have the power to bring causes of action when we believe that the president of the United States is exceeding his authority and is trampling upon Article 1 of the Constitution, powers granted to the Congress.
So, to me, it makes a whole lot of sense to do this. It's not the first time the court has been asked to do it. We have a case pending right now --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: And what about the argument by the time this gets settled, Barack Obama will no longer be president, sir?
GOODLATTE: Correct. That's why we passed a law through the House, and I'm proud to say five Democrats joined with all the Republicans to say, yes, we should make it easier for this process to take place -- so that the court would hear a case when a majority of either the House or Senate or both elect to bring a case, and would do it in an expedited fashion with a three-judge panel and an immediate appeal to the Supreme Court which could be revived in six to seven months.
WALLACE: Of course, it hasn't gotten through the Senate.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: I have to move on, sir. We're running out of time.
Meanwhile, there was another big development this week. That is that the Supreme Court ruled unanimously 9-0 that the president violated the Constitution when he made appointments to the National Labor Relations Board while the senate was on brief breaks in its work.
Here is Republican Senator Mike Lee reacting to the court's decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: The court said the president doesn't have the power to decide when the Senate is in session. Only the Senate can decide that. When the Senate decides that it's not in recess, the president may not issue a recess appointment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Congressman Becerra, 9-0 in the Supreme Court. Isn't this another clear case of presidential overreach?
BECERRA: When you face a Republican majority in the House that is playing this game of shut-down politics, blocking everything the president wants --
WALLACE: This has nothing to do with the House.
BECERRA: Including the confirmation of judges and of agency heads --
WALLACE: The how does not confirm --
BECERRA: I understand. In the case of the House, for example, the House decided to litigate --
WALLACE: I'm asking you a specific question. The 9-0 decision by the Supreme Court on making recess appointments when the court said, and it was a liberal justice, Stephen Breyer, who wrote the decision, when the court said the Senate wasn't in session. Isn't this presidential overreach?
BECERRA: What the president did, what presidents have done since the time of horse and buggy, throughout Republicans and Democrats alike, is used to power to appointment to go out and do that. During the recess when the president did these appointments, the question was, did he have the power? Was Congress in recess?
OK, the judges have clarified that. That's fine. That doesn't stop the fact that Republicans have used this shut-down politics to try to keep the president from being able to enforce the law and govern by denying him his nominations for judges and heads of agencies.
The president said it already. He's going to act if Congress won't. Congress has the ability to act to change the law.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: I have one more thing I want to ask.
BECERRA: But if I could just conclude the last point --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: I have one more thing. Excuse me, excuse me. Excuse me, Congressman, I'm going to ask another question.
BECERRA: All right.
WALLACE: The Supreme Court, because we're running out of time, the Supreme Court is expected to announce tomorrow the decision tomorrow on the Hobby Lobby case. That's a question as to whether or not under Obamacare the president can mandate a private company to provide birth control coverage to its workers if that's in violation of the owner's religious beliefs.
Let me begin with you, Congressman Goodlatte, and I'm going to ask you to take 30 seconds to answer this. What do you think is at stake here in terms of executive powers and how do you expect the court to rule in Hobby Lobby?
GOODLATTE: Well, in that case, I think the statute itself as interpreted by the president violates the First Amendment of the Constitution. I'm hoping the court will uphold the rights of individuals for their expression of their religious freedoms.
Now, the end does not justify the means in these cases. And 9-0 decision last week was the 13th time the Supreme Court has voted 9-0 that the president has exceeded his constitutional authority.
WALLACE: Let me interrupt you and go to Congressman Becerra briefly, 30 seconds. If I own a company and I have strong religious beliefs, the government can tell me I have to violate those beliefs in terms of providing birth control coverage to my employees?
BECERRA: The government will not violate anyone's religious beliefs. But no one has the right to discriminate against a woman because of her own beliefs. I believe that the Supreme Court will find that no business --
WALLACE: She doesn't have to work with the company.
BECERRA: -- no business should be allowed to discrimination against women. And we've gone beyond that. We should also try to pay them equally for the work they do.
WALLACE: We're not talking about that. We're talking about the birth control mandate.
BECERRA: Let's protect the woman's rights to be able to earn the same pay and live their lives --
WALLACE: What about the owner's right to his religious freedom, his religious beliefs?
BECERRA: The owner has a right to his or her religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean you get to discriminate against women if a woman have different beliefs than what the owner has and the woman wants to exercise her rights under the Constitution.
WALLACE: Congressman Becerra, Congressman Goodlatte, sorry for all the interruptions. It was like herding cats today. Thank you both. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.
BECERRA: Appreciate it.
GOODLATTE: Thank you, Chris.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT