CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: "Interview with Sen. Kamala Harris"

Interview

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COOPER: Kylie Atwood, appreciate it. Thanks.

Joining us now, someone who not only is running to defeat President Trump next year but will also be one of the Senate jurors if he is impeached. She also sits on the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees.

Kamala Harris, thanks for being on the broadcast. Appreciate it.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course.

COOPER: First of all, just what's your reaction to this latest reporting about Giuliani trying to override the Ukraine embassy and the State Department to get a visa for this former prosecutor?

HARRIS: Yes.

Anderson, it's further evidence of corruption by this administration, and the personal attorney of the president of the United States clearly implicitly being given permission to act as though he is an arm of the government and the State Department. And it's a violation of an extraordinary number of rules and ethical laws about what -- who should do what. And I'm just glad to see the process is beginning to really do the investigation into Rudy Giuliani. He has clearly broken many laws.

And, you know, I was listening to the report as you were playing it. And it also raises for me questions about, again, who knew what in the administration. As I've been thinking about it, clearly, there is -- there are questions to be asked of the chief of staff. We have talked about Mick Mulvaney. But I frankly think that we should also be asking of John Kelly and Reince Priebus, because clearly, for a long time now, we've been talking about bad behaviors coming from the administration and coming from the desk of the president of the United States.

COOPER: What -- are there specific laws you believe Giuliani has broken or may have broken?

HARRIS: Well, I don't know. We're going to find out. But I don't -- I think the range includes not only abuse of power and perhaps misstatement and mischaracterization of his role and responsibilities, but I also really do wonder just instinctively whether there's been bribery associated with Giuliani's conduct. I think there are a number of questions to be asked. And once the facts are transparent and have been available for Congress at the very beginning to see, I think we'll know the laws that have been broken.

COOPER: What's so interesting about Giuliani's involvement, too, is that -- I mean, it seems with every day that passes, there's another example of Giuliani kind of running and being licensed by the president to run a shadow foreign policy, circumvent state department protocols and it's not only for the president's benefit but Giuliani also has business interests in the region. I mean, he's got business interests in Ukraine that go back years.

HARRIS: That's right.

COOPER: He's got, you know, business interests I understand in Turkey as well.

So, it's not clear exactly who he is working for. He is working for the president but he's also working for himself.

HARRIS: Well, you're right, Anderson. And this is part of -- this is part of the character of in administration as a whole. There are many people in Donald Trump's administration who I think are, you know, have questionable priorities.

And whether those priorities are in fact on before of the people of the United States or on before of their special interests based on former relationships in the private sector or what they anticipate and are planning in terms of future replaces in the private sector.

You're absolutely right. And that's why it is corrupt. Because this is -- these are positions especially for knows who hold elected office and appointed office in this administration. These are positions held in the public trust. And they are -- they are not meant to be -- or designed to be for personal interest.

But Donald Trump and many of the members I think of his administration are not clear about that point, which is why we need this impeachment process to proceed.

COOPER: It's also the president is holding this money over Ukraine -- this is not his money. It's taxpayer money. American taxpayers have paid.

HARRIS: Exactly right.

COOPER: Given this money.

HARRIS: Yes.

COOPER: So, when you think about it that way.

HARRIS: That's exactly right.

COOPER: He is holding American taxpayer money over the Ukrainian president's head. They need it to fight Russia, lives are hanging in the balance.

HARRIS: That's right.

COOPER: And he would get information that helps him against his main -- or at the time a political opponent in the upcoming election with American taxpayer dollars.

[20:10:05]

So, American taxpayers are paying for dirt on a person running for president.

HARRIS: Well, and you are absolutely right. These are in the Donald Trump's personal dollars. These are the -- these are the dollars of hard working Americans who have been paying taxes to their government with an expectation that that money will be used to their benefit in their best interests, which includes the best interests of national security.

But yet, Donald Trump is bartering and holding hostage American taxpayer dollars for the sake of his personal political benefit. And, again, let's remember that this money was to be used to support a partner in a democracy who has been trying to defend his country against an insurgent from Russia which is a longstanding adversary of our country.

And it is -- not, so the corruption is rampant in ways because it's not only about what might be for his personal benefit. It's also a misuse of public funds, in a way that is -- is unethical and is frankly in violation of all that we would expect the president as commander in chief would do for the best interests of national security.

COOPER: So strange yesterday, the Mulvaney press catastrophe was training on many levels. But one of the things he insisted on was that the Bidens had nothing -- dirt on Biden had nothing to do with what the president was seeking. It was all just this conspiracy theory about the server being in Ukraine and CrowdStrike. And that, yes, that was the quid pro quo that he wanted information on.

But I don't understand how with a straight face Mulvaney can claim that dirt on the Bidens had nothing to do with it when the president in the transcript not only says the Bidens -- that's item number two on his ask after the guy, you know, is asking for the aid, but also just on the White House lawn, I think was October 3rd when asked -- he was asked what did you want the Ukrainian president to do after the call? And he said words to the effect of did -- I don't have the exact transcript. He said investigate the Bidens, do something on the Bidens. He has said it multiple times.

HARRIS: He's committing -- he is committing -- he is committing these acts that are violations of the law in the open, in the plain sight of the American people. And I think there are some who might be confused and might try to interpret -- well, how could he possibly be committing a crime if it happens in public?

There are plenty of crimes, let me tell you as a former prosecutor, that happen in public and people seeing it are called witnesses and witnesses then come forward with evidence that proves that crime. And that's exactly what's going to happen in this case and what has been happening in the case and it both relates to what Donald Trump has done -- I mean, you know, Mick Mulvaney, people say well he must have meant something else how could he possibly have told the truth about the fact that this was quid pro quo?

That's called a confession. That also happens a lot in criminal cases.

COOPER: (INAUDIBLE)

HARRIS: So, what we are seeing is frankly not atypical in a criminal proceeding. And in criminal cases, which there are confessions. That's why we have that term. And we use it often.

COOPER: Yes.

HARRIS: That's why we have the term witnesses. Because often there are people mo actually observe the crime as it is happening. And so, this is what we are seeing with this case.

COOPER: I'm always fast nature in courtrooms in when a defendant or attorney argues, well, no one would be so stupid as to do what my client is accused of the way he is accused of it when in fact many people are that stupid to do things exactly as they are charged with. I'm sure you have seen that many times.

HARRIS: Yes.

COOPER: Senator Kamala Harris, I appreciate it. Thank you.

HARRIS: Yes. OK, take care. COOPER: All right. Take care.

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