NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Justin Amash
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is a former Republican, now independent member of Congress, Justin Amash of Michigan, who left the Republican Party shortly after reading Robert Mueller's report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. He does back impeachment. Congressman Amash, welcome to Meet the Press.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Thanks so much for having me on.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to start with the Syria decision. You, you have a very principled stand when it comes to foreign policy, and you seem to be caught in your own principles. You voted "present" because, on one hand, you didn't think we should have ever been there in the first place. On the other hand, you weren't comfortable with how the president did this decision. Explain this conundrum for you.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Yeah, that's right. I don't think we should have been in Syria without congressional approval. We never had congressional approval for the mission. I think the president should have withdrawn troops long ago. But when you withdraw troops, you have to plan ahead of time how to handle it. And he could have prepared in advance for the obvious consequences. He certainly knew what Turkey would do. And then he acts surprised that they're coming in and committing acts of violence. I think you don't wait till after withdrawing the troops to make a plan to go pressure Turkey to ease up and then call for a ceasefire.
CHUCK TODD:
What can be done now? I mean, this feels like a chaotic situation. And, again, I know where you are philosophically, but what do you think we should do now?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I think it's very difficult to put it all back together. You can't, I think, return the troops into the combat zone. I don't think that's feasible right now, and I'd defer to some military experts on that. But certainly if you're going to put troops back in harm's way, you should get congressional approval. You should go back to Congress and ask for approval from the American people.
CHUCK TODD:
The president has talked about this as sort of, hey, he's fulfilling a promise that he made that troops need to come home. Do you believe people in Michigan that voted for him will view this move as him fulfilling a promise that he's bringing troops home from the Middle East?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I think there are people who support the president who believe things he says. But it's pretty clear he's not bringing home the troops, he's just moving them to other parts of the Middle East.
CHUCK TODD:
You tweeted about that this morning.
JUSTIN AMASH:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
You're like, the troops -- watch his -- you said, "Words versus actions."
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Right. Yeah, he's moving troops back into Iraq. He's moving other troops into Saudi Arabia. And he's using our forces almost as mercenaries, the paid mercenaries who are going to go in and, as long as Saudi Arabia pays us some money, it's good to go. What happened to the American people having their voices heard through their representatives in Congress? We should make those decisions in Congress. And, frankly, we've been in the Middle East for way too long. We've been in Afghanistan for obviously way too long, and we should bring people home.
CHUCK TODD:
If there was a vote right now in Congress to decide, "It's time to open an impeachment inquiry," and I know there's still a debate about whether there's going to be a vote or not, how many of your former Republican colleagues do you think, after this week's actions, might actually vote with the Democrats on that?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I think maybe one or two. But --
CHUCK TODD:
We may have heard one of them in there, in Francis Rooney.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Yeah. But realistically, politics drives a lot of this. And representatives are elected every two years, and they hear from their constituents. And frankly, a lot of the Republicans will be worried about primaries, and they think the president is popular within the primary electorate, and he is.
CHUCK TODD:
Is this why you had --
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
So they --
CHUCK TODD:
-- to leave the party? In order to stick to your principles that you felt if you wanted to criticize the president and you did it as a Republican, you probably would have been voted out, right?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I don't think so. I was comfortable sticking to my principles regardless, and I've built up enough of a reputation in my district. They know I'm independent. They know I will do what I believe in and stand by what I said on the campaign trail. But --
CHUCK TODD:
But you left the party anyway.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Yeah. But I've been frustrated for a long time with the party system. I've been frustrated with the way Washington works. I've been frustrated with the top-down approach to everything in Washington where a few leaders dictate everything to everyone, whether it's the president of the United States or the speaker of the House or the Senate majority leader. And we need to open things up again.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. How are you -- how can you do that? I'm curious. You've left the party. What has that meant? Have you -- does Kevin McCarthy still talk to you? Do you still --
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Well, he talks to me but not in a nice way.
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, do you feel as if you can be effective?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Yes, I can be more effective.
CHUCK TODD:
Why?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I can reach people on the other side of the aisle that I couldn't reach before. A lot of times --
CHUCK TODD:
But have you been rejected by your former members?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
No. You know, actually, they're less frustrated in many ways because, when you are a Republican and you break from the party, they treat it like you've abandoned the family or something, on a particular issue. So I can be more effective because the people in my former party are more respectful of my decisions now. They're more accepting of the fact that I'm going to, you know, vary from their views on a whole bunch of issues. And then people on the other side of the aisle will be more accepting of me because they don't think I'm just going along with the Republicans.
CHUCK TODD:
Is the House the most effective place for you to make your political arguments these days? Or is the Senate or running for the presidency a better place?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Well, I think I'm very effective in the House. I think my constituents want an independent congressman. My support in the district has been great as an independent. But we do need new voices on the national stage running for national office, including the presidency. I don't think that the current Democratic field is sufficient. If you look at the top three candidates on the Democratic side, they're all over 70 years old. The president's over 70 years old. I think that there is a large segment of the population that is not represented in the top candidates on either side of the aisle, and that's something I think about.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you concerned what would happen if the president survives impeachment? Meaning, the House impeaches him and the Senate acquits.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I'm more concerned about what happens if we don't go forward with impeachment. I think Congress has so neglected checks and balances, and over the years, the executive branch has become so powerful. And we need to restore that power in Congress. We need to restore separation of powers. And, yeah, there are consequences to finding him not guilty in the Senate, but there are consequences to not holding him accountable in the House.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there -- I guess the fear -- and I've heard this, that he will think, "Boy, I'm untouchable now"?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
He's going to think that anyways. I mean, here's a guy who thinks that nothing matters. Everything he does is applauded by people who are afraid of him, frankly. And, you know, I don't think he's that concerned about it.
CHUCK TODD:
What is -- what is it that you think that voters in Michigan saw in him? Versus -- was it about him or do you think it was about Hillary Clinton?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
I think it was a little bit of both. You know, in my neck of the woods on the west side of the state, he wasn't that popular, but neither was Hillary Clinton. But I do think that Hillary, you know, upset a lot of people in the Midwest, that she did not connect with them, in a way. And she certainly connected with people in the Northeast and on the West Coast. But in places like the Midwest, she didn't really connect. And people were drawn to Donald Trump because they thought she wasn't connecting.
CHUCK TODD:
100% you're running for Congress? Or could you still run for another office?
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
No, I wouldn't say --
CHUCK TODD:
-- in 2020.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
-- 100% of anything, you know. I'm running --
CHUCK TODD:
Right. But there had been talking about a Libertarian presidential candidate.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Yeah. I'm running for Congress, but I keep things open and I wouldn't rule anything out.
CHUCK TODD:
Justin Amash, thanks for coming on, sharing your views.
REP. JUSTIN AMASH:
Thank so much, Chuck.
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