CNN "State Of The Union With Jake Tapper" - Transcript "Interview with Mayor Pete Buttigieg"

Interview

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This morning, South Bend Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg will attend church services in South Carolina, as he faces something of an uphill climb in the polls with black voters, especially with those who hold some deep religious convictions. Joining me now live from Georgetown, South Carolina, is 2020

Democratic presidential candidate Mayor Pete Buttigieg.

Mayor Pete, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

You have been struggling to win over African-American voters during this campaign so far...

(COUGHING)

TAPPER: Pardon me -- even as you have been rising.

Less than half of black Protestant Christians support same-sex marriage. You're headed to a black church later today.

Do you think that the fact that you're gay is part of what might be holding you back with at least some black voters?

BUTTIGIEG: I think most black voters, like most voters in general, want to know what the candidates are actually going to do to improve their lives.

And when I talk to black voters in particular, there's a sense of having been taken for granted in politics and a sense that candidates haven't always been speaking to them or earning their trust.

So, more than anything, I think my job is to make sure that I explain how our vision for increasing the number of black entrepreneurs is going to lead to economic empowerment, how the part of my Douglass Plan for tackling institutional racism that works on health will help close the maternal mortality gap.

[09:20:00]

I think a lot of these other factors start to wash away once voters understand what it's going to mean for them that you, vs. the others, are in office.

But we have got six months to make sure we get that message out, make sure we demonstrate that I'm serious about the things I would do as president.

And that's how I plan to earn support among black voters, whether it's here in South Carolina or across the country.

TAPPER: You have been critical in the past of Vice President Mike Pence's positions on LGBT issues and the fact that his religious conservatism on these issues obviously influences an anti-LGBT view on policies.

You have said -- quote -- "I have a problem with religion being used as a justification to harm people, and especially in the LGBT community," calling same-sex marriage a moral issue.

Obviously, this is not the same thing, but explain how it's different that there are Democratic voters who might have an issue with LGBTQ rights. How is that different from Vice President Pence, if they're both based in religious views?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think back to my experience in Indiana when I was running for reelection after I came out in a community that's generally Democratic, but also quite socially conservative.

And I just laid out the case on the kind of job that I was doing. And what I found was, a lot of people were able to move past old prejudices and move into the future.

This is not an easy conversation for a lot of people who have, frankly, been brought up in a certain way and are struggling to get onto the right side of history.

But I also believe that this conversation is picking up speed, that it's a healthy conversation, and that where it leads is an understanding that all marginalized people need to stand together at a time when so many Americans in so many different ways, especially under this presidency, are coming under attack.

TAPPER: You told me on the show two weeks ago that you believe President Trump is a white nationalist.

Given that, do you think that it's a racist act to cast a vote for President Trump in 2020?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, at best, it means looking the other way on racism.

But I think a lot of people are wondering what kind of deal even that is supposed to be.

You know, you look at what he said in that rally, "You have got no choice but to vote for me."

And if you look at the numbers, basically, what he's saying is, all right, I want you to look the other way on the racism, tolerate the negativity, accept the instability of my administration, because I am going to deliver for you job growth almost as good as the Obama years.

That's what his argument amounts to right now. And it's part of the reason why he's unpopular.

TAPPER: Let's talk about gun control, if we can.

You have said that -- quote -- "weapons of war" don't belong in our neighborhoods. You served in Afghanistan, so you know what a weapon of war is.

Your 2020 opponent former Congressman Beto O'Rourke supports mandatory buybacks for so-called assault weapons, certain types of semiautomatic weapons. You have stopped short of that.

But if you think so-called assault weapons don't belong in our neighborhoods, as you have stated, why wouldn't you support mandatory buybacks of assault weapons?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think we have got a lot of work to do right now on the basics, universal background checks, red flag laws, a ban on new sales of these assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, things that the majority, in many cases, the vast majority, of Americans support, that still haven't got done.

I think we have got some fundamentals we have got to take care of. And then we will work to figure out how to make sure that we're not forever the only country with more guns than people.

TAPPER: President Trump met with his national security team on Friday to weigh this new possible peace deal with the Taliban that theoretically could end the war in Afghanistan.

You have said that you agree with the president that U.S. service members need to come home, and soon.

But I want to share with you what retired General David Petraeus, who led service members in Afghanistan and Iraq under President Obama, wrote in "The Wall Street Journal" a few days ago.

Quote: "A complete military exit from Afghanistan today would be even more ill-advised and risky than the Obama administration's disengagement from Iraq in 2011. If the Trump administration orders a full pullout from Afghanistan, there is considerably less doubt about what will happen, full-blown civil war and the reestablishment of a terrorist sanctuary" -- unquote.

Now, you told me in the CNN debates that you would bring U.S. service members home within your first year as president.

Do you support the president's potential peace deal in Afghanistan? And how do you respond to the concerns of General Petraeus?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, the problem with the president's path is, it seems to be dictated by the American political calendar.

You add to that the fact that there doesn't seem to be any real role for the legitimately elected Afghan government, and it is a recipe for us winding up having to go back because of a problem that unfolds.

Look, if we really want to leave well -- and we're going to leave -- remember, leaving Afghanistan is the one thing that the right, the left, the Taliban, the government, and the international community all agree on.

[09:25:07]

So the real question here is, are we going to leave well, or are we going to leave poorly?

To do it right, we need to make sure we get the basic assurances about counterterrorism that we need, and that the Afghan government is on the table, so that there's a formula for stability. We have leverage in this conversation.

It is in the interest of even the Taliban to make sure that we have the right kind of political settlement. But there has to be an actual strategy. And it can't be driven by the timeline of the American election. It has to be driven by our ability to get a deal that makes sense.

TAPPER: You told me that you wanted to get U.S. service members out within the first year. I mean, is that -- is that not too quickly?

BUTTIGIEG: Of course I want to get -- I would rather we be done with this today.

I mean, right now, somebody is packing their bags for Afghanistan, 18 years after 9/11, wondering why we're there.

It's very clear that we need to bring this to a close. Now, we may need some kind of special operations or intelligence capability, just as we would in many hot spots around the world, to protect American interests.

But, right now, the only way that we can get to that withdrawal, bring this thing to a close, is to have a political settlement that has the parties at the table.

And while it's good to hear that there are talks going on, it's concerning to hear that those talks are leaving the Afghan government at the sidelines.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the economy.

You just heard my interview with the president's trade adviser, Peter Navarro. President Trump says taking his tariffs off China now would be -- quote -- "economic surrender," saying the U.S. cannot make a trade deal without dialing up more pressure.

You have vowed to lift those tariffs if you become president. What makes you think China would make a trade deal with you as president without the kind of pressure that President Trump is now exerting with these tariffs?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, we have a lot of different forms of leverage in the relationship.

But it's also a fool's errand to think you're going to be able to get China to change the fundamentals of their economic model by poking them in the eye with some tariffs.

And, by the way, despite all -- all of the noise from that previous interview, there are some basic facts here that you can't escape. And one of them is that American farmers are getting killed.

I was just in Iowa in rural parts of the state talking with a lot of farmers, who -- many of whom are Republicans or supported this president, and are now asking the question, how much longer are we supposed to take one for the team?

The president has said repeatedly that he's on the cusp of getting a deal. The president has failed to deliver a deal. And I expect he will continue to do so. And, in the meantime, we're paying the cost of these tariffs. We're

going to see even more in the prices of consumer goods. The president apparently is aware of this, because he said he was going to delay them until Christmas.

What are we supposed to do after Christmas? There is clearly no strategy for dealing with the trade war in a way that will actually lead to results for American farmers or American consumers.

And part of the reason is that this is not what it's going to take to actually guide China into a different direction. This is going to -- this is about a lot more than just some tariffs.

Look, you consider the position that China is in now, and you consider our loss of domestic competitiveness, because we're not even investing at home in education, infrastructure, health, the things that are going to allow us to be a world leader into the 21st century. If we're neglecting that, none of this is going to matter.

Meanwhile, you have got an economy that is not working for most Americans. There's a big debate going on right now over whether we're on the cusp of a recession. I think we probably are.

But the more important thing is, even during an expansion, most Americans haven't been able to get ahead. That is a huge problem. And the president has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't care.

When it comes to rural America, I think, to him, it's just the scenery that he sees out the helicopter window on the way to his golf course. And when it comes to American consumers, he is completely out of touch with the impact it's going to have on the prices we pay for our goods as a result of a trade war in which both sides will lose.

TAPPER: South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, thank you so much for your time. Good luck on the campaign trail.

BUTTIGIEG: Thanks. Good to be with you.

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