CNN "Erin Burnett Out Front" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Andre Carson"

Interview

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BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kaitlan. And I want to go out front now to Democratic Congressman Andre Carson who is on the Intelligence Committee and as has been inside the room for those depositions. And Congressman, I appreciate your time.

So I want to start straight with the news right here, which is that two other people who have been inside some of those depositions; Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan, apparently, we understand have been informally helping attorneys in the White House for the President to sort through some of the testimony they're saying publicly reported aspects of that testimony even though those White House lawyers have not been allowed in those closed-door depositions. Do you see any problem with this?

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REP. ANDRE CARSON (D-IN): I absolutely do. For me and those of us who serve on the Intelligence Committee, we take our responsibilities, we take our oath to the Constitution and our commitment to the committee very seriously. I think that repeated leaks, I think repeated posturing and doing the White House's bidding is unacceptable to me.

The founders as many of my Republican friends like to mention constantly and had envisioned separate but equal branches of government. And so for my colleagues to do such a thing to me is unpatriotic.

BURNETT: And look, it's a significant thing to say. I mean here's what we understand happened here with Colonel Vindman, I don't know if you just heard our reporting. But apparently, we understand he testified.

But after he went to John Eisenberg, the Chief Counsel on the NSC to say, look, he had deep concerns about the President's behavior on the call with the Ukrainian president, Eisenberg told him not to talk about the call with anyone. Now, you were inside the room for Vindman's testimony and I know that you can't talk about what you heard.

CARSON: Thank you.

BURNETT: But my question for you is did you get the impression from what Vindman said that Eisenberg was just being cautious or was something more going on here with his instruction for silence?

CARSON: It's difficult to say, but what I can say is that given the history of President Trump and his cronies and the administration, it is clear that they have repeatedly tried to silenced detractors, silenced those who were concerned about the preservation of the Republic. And so I think given the behavior, we can only determine their behavior based on their behavior. Given their behavior, they seem to be dedicated to protecting Donald

Trump even though his violations are repeatedly blatant and disrespectful and unethical.

BURNETT: Now, Tim Morrison, and the National Security Council's top Russia and Europe adviser, I know testified Thursday that he had concerns over that call, but his main concern was about the transcript actually leaking. He didn't think that there was anything illegal with the call itself. He had that in his opening statement, which we have all obviously read those excerpts from.

Is it possible Eisenberg was being cautious in the same way that he just didn't personally think there was anything wrong here?

CARSON: I can't speak to what's in his mind, but it's clear having read the transcripts as you have, Erin, that you have hundreds of millions of dollars that have been approved by both the House and the Senate that President Trump is using as a bargaining chip, a perfect example of quid pro quo to encourage the Ukrainian government to investigate a political rival, i.e. Joe Biden.

That to me is beyond unpatriotic, unAmerican, illegal and unethical. It's worthy of impeachment.

BURNETT: All right. So when you say worthy of impeachment, obviously it seems clear to me you've seen enough information to know how you're going to vote on this. I mean you just said it right there.

CARSON: Sure.

BURNETT: So I'm curious how you respond today to what Speaker Pelosi said and her situation, here's what she said about a vote.

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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We haven't even made a decision to impeach. This is what an inquiry is about.

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BURNETT: Do you wish that she was being more definitive as you just were about how she sees this?

CARSON: Well, I think while Director Mueller's report wasn't necessarily conclusive, he lays out 10 or 11 provisions that would help aid us in making that kind of determination. I think what was important about our vote yesterday was that we were finally able to get on record to move forward with not only public hearings, but we were able to move forward with the public hearing being led initially by the Intelligence Committee and then by judiciary to allow the American people to watch this political process, watch these hearings unfold.

So they can contact their Members of Congress and their Members of the Senate and urged them to move forward with what must be done to preserve our democracy. BURNETT: Congressman, I just wanted to tell you The New York Times is

now reporting that Mr. Eisenberg, of course, we were just talking about him, lead counsel on the NSC who instructed Vindman to keep concerns about the call to himself, but he has now been subpoenaed. Do you expect him to honor that and to appear for his scheduled testimony on Monday?

CARSON: He certainly should and if he doesn't, we will take other measures. So I don't want to speak for Chairman Schiff, but if he is concerned about our country, I would hope that he would be cooperative with our subpoena.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Congressman Carson. I appreciate your time.

CARSON: Thank you, ma'am. What a pleasure.

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