NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Mayor Pete Buttigieg

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend. Mayor Pete, welcome back to Meet the Press.

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Good to be back.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I get to the campaign here, what is the practical fallout from the, from the Democratic Party's failed effort here to get the president through the constitutional process of impeachment?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Well, I think that the critical thing was to take the step of seeking to hold the president accountable. Now, it fell to the Senate. It looks like the Senate GOP has always viewed this as a foregone conclusion. And the most important thing that I'm sharing, especially with voters, with caucus-goers as I travel through Iowa, is I understand the sense of exhaustion that can come from watching this whole process play out. Where actually SNL's mockery of the trial almost seemed like it was a process that had more integrity than the actual trial, having no witnesses at all. And it beats you down. But, if the Senate is the jury right now, we are the jury tomorrow. And however frustrating it is to watch that process, you can't switch it off, you can't walk away, and you can't give up because this is actually the year where there is accountability for the president and for a lot of these senators because it's an election year.

CHUCK TODD:

A lot of Democrats say, "Jeez." They think he -- it was unfair in '16 and he won. And they think this process was unfair and he won again. They're starting to -- some of them might lose faith that, you know, if you try to fight this guy fair, you lose.

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Well, I think that we can fight fair, but we've got to fight tough. We've got to be ready to go up against somebody who's pulling out all of the stops in order to --

CHUCK TODD:

What makes you tough enough to take on --

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

-- stay in power --

CHUCK TODD:

-- Donald Trump?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Well, for one thing, I'm not afraid of the kind of nonsense he's going to throw around. I've seen worse forms of incoming than a tweet full of typos.

CHUCK TODD:

But you can't ignore it the way -- you have a way of trying to be above things. And i think -- and it's healthy -- there's nothing wrong with that. It's what we all want to teach, we all want to teach kids and we want to teach people to do that. But he doesn't do that. And sometimes you have to be just as pugilistic.

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Yeah. I mean, there are times you've got to fight back and hit back. But the thing about Donald Trump, he's kind of like a Chinese finger trap, where the harder you pull, the more you get stuck. He has this way of changing the subject. And so in dealing with him, it's very important if he tells a lie, you correct it. If he does something wrong, you confront it. If he attacks you, you push back. But then, you've got to very quickly return to what this election and every election is actually about, which is the voter asking the question, "How's my life going to be different if you're president instead of you?" And we've got the best answers on all of those questions. We're the ones trying to get everyone a raise. We're the ones trying to protect folks' health care. We're the ones serious about dealing with gun violence, and climate change, and reforming immigration. On issue after issue, a strong American majority, including some independents and Republicans, is with us right now, which is exactly why he needs to change the subject to himself.

CHUCK TODD:

Is there a point where the Democratic Party tent is too big and it can't accommodate everybody? You've got Sanders here on the left, Democratic Socialism, which is popular with one part of the party, enormously unpopular with another part of the party. That is a funda -- I mean, how do you bridge that divide where you've got to get Michael Bloomberg and Bernie Sanders' supporters in the middle and just being in the middle sometimes, that doesn't work?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

You know, I think that the primary process by its nature magnifies these differences. These differences are real. It's part of the focus of my campaign --

CHUCK TODD:

A big difference between socialism and capitalism.

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Yeah. And you don't have to choose. The point of my campaign is you don't have to choose between the status quo over here and revolution over there, that we actually have a pretty well-shared sense of values in this party, even from the progressive left through to independents and some forward-thinking Republicans. But we've got to be ready to galvanize that majority and not let it get polarized. And I think it's a strength of our party that we pull in a lot of people, especially at a time like this because we're modeling the kind of healing that our country will need in this divided and polarized moment on the day after Donald Trump leaves office.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, look, there are some angry Democrats out there. I want to play this clip of Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib reacting to a Hillary Clinton criticism of the Sanders campaign. Here it is.

[BEGIN TAPE]

MODERATOR:

You guys remember last week when someone by the name of Hillary Clinton said that nobody -- we're not going to boo. We're not going to boo. We're classy here.

REPRESENTATIVE RASHIDA TLAIB:

No, no.

MODERATOR:

We're classy --

REPRESENTATIVE RASHIDA TLAIB:

I'll boo. Boo. That's all right. The haters, the haters will shut up on Monday when we win.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

The fact is, look, Senator Sanders is talking about party unity. He is pledging to support whoever the nominee is. And obviously all of you have said that as candidates. But there is real anger out there. Hillary Clinton is not happy. There is real bitterness. How do you bridge that divide? How do you fix that?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

When I'm talking about turning the page, this is part of what I'm talking about. Why would we want to relive 2016? I didn't much like living through it the first time --

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think Hillary Clinton should continue these criticisms? Or would you like her -- to see her pull them back?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

I'm not going to tell her or anybody else what to do, but here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to focus on where we need to head not just as a party but as a country. You know, when I'm talking to Iowans, as we've been doing, especially in these days leading up to the caucus, the focus is not on re-litigating a fight from 2016, let alone who said what when about Social Security in the 1990s. The question is: How are we going to protect Social Security now? How are we going to make sure we're not in a war with Iran by the time the new president takes office? How are we going to make sure that one job is actually enough in this country? These are the things that are actually affecting folks on the ground that I'm getting questions about right and left from folks who are so frustrated and so worried about those they love on everything from climate change to mental health. We have got to focus on what every election is about. And it's the lives of the voters, not the lives of the candidates.

CHUCK TODD:

Tomorrow night, a lot of people may be asked to be more pragmatic, right? You get there, your candidate doesn't have the threshold, and then you've got to pick your second choice. It seems as if between you, the vice president, Senator Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren, you're all sort of vying to be the alternative to Sanders, that you're going to -- at some point you're going to do that. A lot of voters are looking at you and saying, "I like him. He connects with me. I'm worried he can't win African American voters." Are you concerned that that perception might actually cost you second place in the caucuses?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Well, I actually think it's all the more reason why we need to demonstrate strength here in Iowa. Because a lot of the voters, especially black voters in the South that I'm talking to, they appreciate what's in my plans. But they also just want to know that they're supporting a candidate who can win. I mean, nobody is feeling the pain of living under the Trump presidency more than Americans of color right now. And so there is a fierce sense of urgency about making sure we can defeat him. The process of proving that I'm the candidate to do that begins with the organizational show of force that starts right here tomorrow night in Iowa.

CHUCK TODD:

Of the top five candidates, only one has ever proven to win African American voters on a consistent basis. That's Vice President Biden. Not Sanders, not Warren, not Klobuchar, not yourself. Why do you think you're held to this standard more so than the other candidates?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

Well, I'd leave that to pundits to figure out. I do think that, you know, I come from a city that's had some tough experiences. But in many ways, that's the point, is that we haven't debated these things or voted on them just from a legislative perspective. On everything from racial justice in policing to economic empowerment, in South Bend we have had to roll up our sleeves and work to deliver for a diverse and largely low-income city. We've got a lot to show for it, especially in the fall in unemployment and poverty for black residents. Also a long way to go. But telling that story is exactly how I can demonstrate that I will arrive in office determined to bring about greater racial equality and justice in this country.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you reconsider your candidacy if you don't finish in the top three?

PETE BUTTIGIEG:

I'll let others set the goal posts. But, look, let's face it. I need to have a good finish here in Iowa. We know it, and we're working very hard to do that.

CHUCK TODD:

And thank you again to Pete Buttigieg, who I spoke to a few moments ago before this show started. Let me bring in our panel: Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher; O. Kay Henderson, news director of the Radio Iowa Network; Anna Palmer, co-author of Politico's Playbook, and Rich Lowry, editor of National Review. Kay, you get to start first. This is your territory. We're the visitors here. It's always good to have you as our opener. All right. The thing you take away most here is this indecision over this electability issue. There's Sanders, and then there's that issue. What's happening?

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