MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript Interview with Michelle Lujan Grisham
Interview
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Joining me now, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham.
Governor, what is your understanding of what happened last night and how is
your state responding to it?
GOV. MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): Well, two things. Frankly, you got what
we understand to be the facts as we're starting the investigation exactly
right. We are incredibly horrified and disturbed. We're about to go into a
budget special session. It starts on Thursday.
And police reform and racial injustice are going to be topics that we will
get through in a couple of days to see if we can't do better than the
militarization of our police and having militia engaged only to provoke
violence at peaceful protests. These have to be addressed. The state has a
clear role to make a difference here.
HAYES: Yes. I mean, in some ways, what was so unnerving about last night
and it's something that's been going through my head through much of this
is, you know, things are just different when people are armed. I think we
would all agree, right?
If you see 1,000 people in the street protesting, that's one thing. If 1000
people in the street are protesting and they're all carrying guns, that's
another. If 500 are on each side and they're all carrying guns, that's
another entirely. Like, what do you -- how do you understand this in terms
of the role that weapons play or folk coming armed to these kinds of
events?
GRISHAM: So Chris, a couple of years ago, I was talking to that New
Mexicans and folks across the country that this country, it occurs to me,
has a very negative gun culture. And when I became elected governor, one of
the first things I did was instruct our Department of Health to treat gun
violence as the public health epidemic that frankly it is.
And there is no question that when you are gathering or marching or
protesting, and there's a group of armed citizens with automatic weapons
who are completely dressed in military gear, their only role is to provoke
and to seek intimidation of individuals who are peacefully protesting.
And this horrific example that played out in Albuquerque, you know, I have
been incredibly grateful that we haven't had such a situation, given the
last 20 plus days in this country, and the incredible work of peaceful
protesters. But make no mistake, this is not the first time this particular
militia has been engaging in public.
And I think it's time we find a way to be clear. All our constitutional
rights are valid. My constitutional right to be safe in my community needs
to be upheld. And we have got to stop this intimidation and stop allowing
armed men and women whose only purpose is to create havoc and harm at these
gatherings.
It's unacceptable and we have no we have the ability to do something about
it right now in this country. And New Mexico intends, I intend to do
something about it.
HAYES: I want to read you something that a Simon Romero who's a New York
Times reporter who I follow -- whose work I followed forever. He's been --
he's reported in Latin America for years. He said, "I've covered violent
street protests in Caracas and Rio, I never felt as threatened as last
night in Albuquerque. At one point, an armed militia member taunted me for
working the New York Times. No police were insight. Why did authority cede
control the scene to extremist gunman?"
Do you have an answer to that? Do you think that's a fair question?
GRISHAM: It's an incredibly fair question, and it's why the state is going
to investigate this action last night and not allow the investigation by --
internally by the local police. Why did they allow the militia to be
present? Where were they? Why did they only show up -- I'm hearing reports
-- 21 minutes after 911 calls were made? Where were they?
When they showed up, it was more like a SWAT presence. Why were they
shooting rubber bullets at peacefully fleeing protesters? Why did they
allow the shooter, Mr. Baca, to engage with protesters before the actual
horrific incident that has a young man fighting for his life in our
hospital?
There were plenty of warning signs. And I fear that we have some folks in
our law enforcement entities who I think have promoted potentially the
efforts of these militias. And we intend to independently investigate that
and determine exactly what's going on.
So, I agree with the New York Times reporter and I'm you know, lifelong New
Mexican and I lived in Albuquerque for decades before having this
incredible job, and I've never seen anything like that anywhere in our
state. And no doubt the militia played a violent role in what occurred, and
we will do something about it.
HAYES: New Mexico governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, thank you so much for
making time for us tonight.
GRISHAM: Absolutely. Thank you for inviting me and thank you for everyone
in the country who's fighting against these racial injustice issues and
making sure that we have a fair and just and appropriately engaged police
force. New Mexico will do its part.
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