CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript Interview with Joe Manchin

Interview

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Joining us now, West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

Senator Manchin, you have said you will vote against Judge Barrett's nomination.

But you voted to confirm her to the circuit court back in 2017. You clearly viewed her as qualified then. Why is she not qualified now?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Well, the ABA has her qualified. And that was the premise. I looked at everybody that was coming before, whether it be district or circuit.

But, Jake, what we're dealing with is a precedent that had never been set before. We have never in the history of the United States of America confirmed a judge that's -- when a Supreme Court vacancy appeared from July 1 to November. It's never happened before.

You were talking. I heard Tom talking. And I heard Nancy Pelosi and before that.

But Tom was saying the different things of, well, 10 months out, eight months out or whenever. But eight months ago, in 2016, they took the position that two people should have the right to vote because there was going to be election in a few months. That was eight months out.

[09:25:06]

We're talking one month out. This has never happened. If they want to set a precedent, this is basically just adding more flames, fanning the flames of division in a country that's already divided.

It's something that I would think and hope that we would all come to our senses and say, hey, can't we wait until after the election? And if what Tom has just said, that the people spoke overwhelmingly, what would they be afraid of? Then he shouldn't have any concerns at all about waiting until after the election.

TAPPER: Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell appears to have the votes to push the nomination through.

Republicans have made it clear they intend to act before the election. You just heard Tom Cotton, Senator Cotton, say that she will be confirmed before Election Day, in October.

Isn't this basically a done deal?

MANCHIN: Well, you would like to hope that now -- I mean, there's a certain amount of decency and decorum that we have always adhered to. That's a part of our democracy and the fabric of who we are.

When the president outright said that, I'm not sure about, that we will have to wait and see if the election, whether he will concede or not, and a basically peaceful, orderly transfer of power, you're not hearing any of my colleagues speak up at all, and really give you a direct answer, that they should be absolutely horrified that even the thought of resisting what -- the people's will.

There's a process we go through, that Election Day will be, and elections will be counted, as far as the votes will be counted. And then that's the last that any mail-in votes or absentee ballots have to be postmarked by.

Then you have that certification by all states. And then you have the Electoral College. We're going to meet -- which will meet the second week of December to confirm. So, there's a process there.

What the president is saying, that there could be basically upheaval at not election night or the morning after the election, when we usually have had gratification of knowing who was going to be that winner. That might not happen because of COVID-19.

TAPPER: Right.

MANCHIN: We're all in unusual times. Our lives are different than what they have been.

So, we have to expect we have got to count many more ballots than has ever been done before, because of this horrible pandemic. But he might not let that happen.

And once he sows the seeds of distrust, then we have got a problem.

TAPPER: Well, what do you think he's going to do?

MANCHIN: And you can tell by the way people are getting...

TAPPER: When you say he might not...

MANCHIN: Well...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: When you say he might not let it happen, obviously, we have just been -- just so viewers are aware, because there are so many vote-by-mail ballots this year, for instance, in the state I'm from, commonwealth I'm from, Pennsylvania, I think they have something like three million.

They're probably not going to be able to count them all by election night, maybe not even until Wednesday or Thursday.

MANCHIN: Correct.

TAPPER: So, we might not have any idea of a clear winner.

What do you think President Trump is going to do? You think he's going to send in the Army and stop the counting of those ballots?

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: No, I do not think that will happen. I hope that doesn't happen.

But, basically, his words do have meaning, especially to his ardent followers, to where if they think that, hey, they're trying to steal the election -- not trying to steal election. We're trying to count the votes. We're trying to figure out, who is the winner?

And under a pandemic that we have right now, they should understand. But he's making everyone believe that, hey, don't worry, there's going to be -- if we lose this election, it will be stolen from him.

No, if you lose the election, it's because the people want a change, they want civility, they want decency back in their lives. We don't want turmoil. We don't want hatred.

This is what we're talking about. And this is what the vote will be on November the 3rd.

TAPPER: Many of your Senate Democratic colleagues have floated the idea of expanding the size of the Supreme Court should this nomination go through with Justice -- Judge Barrett, soon to be Justice Barrett, like -- in all likelihood.

Senator Chuck Schumer says, no options are off the table next year.

Now, I know you have expressed concern over the idea of expanding the court. Just to be clear, if Democrats win back the Senate, would you vote against any effort to expand the U.S. Supreme Court?

MANCHIN: Jake, the thing about the Senate that is so much different, our intentions and how the Senate came about with our founding fathers was supposed to be the cooling sauce, if you will, the saucer that cooled off the hot tea.

We were supposed to work in a bipartisan -- and we have done that.

We have set, basically, over the course of history, how the Senate basically would be the most deliberative body, looking and thinking and bringing people together, letting things calm down, and we could have sensible, reasonable decisions.

Now, with that, I'm not going to vote for anything that would cause basically not to be able to work in a bipartisan way.

TAPPER: So, you would vote against that, then? MANCHIN: And that means I was against in 20 -- that is not something that I would support. I can't support that.

The whole premise of this Senate and this democracy experiment of ours is just certain decency and social order that basically has been expected from us, and especially from the Senate, from the beginning of our government.

Now, all of a sudden, they're going to say, oh, you don't have to talk anymore. You just have to have 51 votes, and forget about the minority.

[09:30:05]

Well, the minority has always played an important part in the Senate's proceedings, because it was supposed to basically take our consideration. If you're in the minority, you still have input, you're still representing, and you're still being deliberative enough to bring common sense together, to make sure that we have looked at every angle we can for American justice.

So, I am saying that any of that type of talk -- there needs to be a cooling-off period. Can't we wait and at least -- and just get through the election year, making sure that it's certified, all the votes are counted, the Electoral College has their final vote second week in December, and we either have a new president, or we have our current president, and that orderly transfer?

TAPPER: Right. Senator...

MANCHIN: But -- go ahead. I'm sorry.

TAPPER: Well, let me just ask you.

There are some Senate Democrats that want to try to gum up the works and slow the process of the confirmation for Judge Barrett.

Would you oppose those moves? And even though you oppose this nomination and how it's going forward, would you meet with Judge Barrett?

MANCHIN: Oh, I have never refused a meeting with anybody. I think that's the greatest responsibility, as a United States senator you have, is to hear all sides of whatever the debate might be or what anybody is going to be confirmed.

How can you confirm? It says basically that we meet and confirm. How do you confirm without meeting or not confirm? So, I have never denied that.

My state of West Virginia is right in the crosshairs right now when you look about the Affordable Care Act and, basically, the writings that Judge Barrett has done over the past. So, that would be a very interesting meeting.

How do I explain to 800,000 people that their preexisting condition is not going to be covered, that they're not going to have the ability to even buy insurance? And how do I explain to 84,000 West Virginians that got health care for the first time?

TAPPER: Yes.

MANCHIN: I mean, we have been fighting it here every day.

And then, November the 10th, there's going to be a hearing.

TAPPER: Yes.

MANCHIN: So, that is something -- that conversation will be a welcome conversation.

TAPPER: OK.

MANCHIN: But I'm against this process and setting a precedent that we have never done.

TAPPER: Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat of West Virginia, we always enjoy having you on. Thank you so much for being with us.

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