CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Mitt Romney

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

TAPPER: President Trump yet to call or concede this race to president-elect Biden.

My next guest knows something about displaying class and humility in a concession speech to a divided nation.

Joining me now, Republican Senator Mitt Romney of Utah.

Senator Romney, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

It's no secret that you have had your differences with President Trump. And you said you weren't going to vote for him. Do you, think ultimately, it's a good thing for the country that Joe Biden is the president-elect?

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Well, I think half the country thinks it's a great idea. I think the other half thinks it's not such a great idea.

[09:20:00]

But the reality is, given the fact that the statisticians have come to a conclusion at this stage, I think we get behind the new president. Unless, for some reason, that's overturned, we get behind the new president, wish him the very best.

And I send our congratulations. And we will keep this president, just like the last president, in our prayers.

TAPPER: You said you didn't vote for President Trump, or you said you weren't going to vote for him. Did you vote for Joe Biden?

ROMNEY: I'm not going to talk about my vote. That's in the rearview mirror.

I'm going to talk now about how I can work with the new president. I know he's on the other side of the aisle, but I want to make sure that we conservatives keep on fighting to make sure that we don't have a Green New Deal, we don't get rid of gas and coal and oil, that we don't have a Medicare-for-all plan put in place, that we don't raise taxes on American enterprise. That would kill the economy.

So, look, I congratulate him, but I'm not going to put aside conservative principles. We're going to fight for the things that we believe in.

TAPPER: Have you spoken with president-elect Biden since his win? If so, what do you tell each other?

And I see those issues that you're talking about where you're going to oppose him. Are there some areas where you think you can work with him?

ROMNEY: I have not spoken with president-elect Biden. I expect I will do some do so at some point, but I presume there's a long line of people wishing him well and offering -- offering to work in a collaborative way.

Yes, there are a number of places where we can where we can work together. Health care is one of those. Look, Obamacare is not working for millions and millions of Americans. We're going to have to fix it.

I would have rather seen it overturned and replaced. But, unless the court tells us to do that, well, we're going to have to fix it the way it is. That's something we can do.

We need to get drug prices down. We need also to find a way to end surprise billing. We have got some ideas on that.

Then I think an area that the president-elect has spoken about that I agree on is finding help for families with kids. So, a more extensive child tax credit I think would be a good thing that we can work on, and then entitlement reform. He wants to add spending to Social Security. We're going to have to find a way to make sure the Social Security trust fund, like that for Medicare and other programs, is solvent.

And they're forecasted to become insolvent relatively quickly. So, there's some work to be done. And, hopefully, we will find some common ground.

TAPPER: Why do you think so few of your colleagues, Republicans on Capitol Hill, have congratulated president-elect Biden and vice president-elect Harris or even acknowledged that they won?

ROMNEY: Well, I can't speak for others.

But I can say that it's a very close race. It's as close or closer than the race back in 2016, when President Trump was elected. When you have a margin of tens of thousands of votes, not hundreds of thousands of votes, why, there's going to be inevitably recalls.

There are also allegations of irregularities of one kind or another. And those are going to have to be investigated and ultimately taken to the court. And so I think some people want to wait until not just the word of FOX and CNN and AP, but actually the certified results that would come from a state.

TAPPER: I mean, President Trump's out there saying that he won the election. It's not just a question of, oh, we have questions about this place or that place.

And we should note, Republican election lawyer Ben Ginsberg, who's a CNN commentator, he's looked into these complaints about voter fraud and the like, and he doesn't see any of these complaints as having merit.

Election officials in Philadelphia, Republican election officials, and throughout the country say this was a clean election.

Does it concern you at all that President Trump and his team are out there saying that he won and lying about the integrity of the election with wild allegations?

ROMNEY: You're not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days, apparently, of his presidency. He is who he is.

And he has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth.

(LAUGHTER)

ROMNEY: And so he's going to -- he's going to keep on fighting until the very end.

But I'm convinced that, once all remedies have been exhausted, if those are exhausted in a way that's not favorable to him, he will accept the inevitable. But don't expect him to go quietly in the night. That's not how he operates.

TAPPER: Have you seen any evidence, any evidence of large-scale or significant voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election?

ROMNEY: Well, I haven't personally.

And I have listened to the head of the Republican National Committee and to commentators on your network and other networks, people who are also registrars and so forth of various states, and no one has alleged something at such a sufficient scale that it would change the outcome.

But there are recounts that will go on. And you have states where the margin is 10,000, another state where it's 20,000, 30,000. When the numbers are that low, why, there's the potential for a reversal.

So, I understand why the president wants to keep on fighting.

[09:25:00]

I do believe, however, that it's destructive to the cause of democracy to suggest widespread fraud or corruption. There's just no evidence of that at this stage. And I think it's important for us to recognize that the world is watching.

And I think, by the way, for all of us, whether we're in the Senate or the governor's homes, or whether the president himself, you think of the line from "Hamilton." History has its eyes on you.

And I think, in a setting like this, it's important to think about what the world is seeing, what history will see. It's important, I believe, for us to stand up and defend the institutions of democracy. It's essential for our democracy and our republic that these institutions are given credibility.

And we will follow the normal course in an election, doing recounts, investigating irregularities. And, when it's over, it'll be over.

TAPPER: So, just a quick yes or no, you don't think anyone's trying to steal the election?

ROMNEY: Oh, I'm sure individuals would like to be able to, but I don't think there's a widespread conspiracy of some kind. Those things just don't happen the way people would anticipate they might.

You have got several states, a number of states that have come out in favor of Joe Biden's election. And so you might get a change in one state, but getting enough to change the outcome, I think, is pretty difficult at this stage.

TAPPER: Speaking of history, you ran for president. You were the Republican nominee in 2012. You conceded to then President Barack Obama back then.

I want to play a little bit of what you said in that speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I have just called President Obama to congratulate him on his victory. His supporters and his campaign also deserve congratulations.

The nation chose another leader. And so Ann and I join with you to earnestly pray for him and for this great nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The difference between that statement, which I'm sure was not easy to give, and what we have heard from President Trump is like night and day, Senator.

Is it important, do you think, for the country that President Trump, in the immortal words of the mayor of Philadelphia, put on his big boy pants and formally concede, reassuring his supporters that Joe Biden is the duly elected president of the United States?

ROMNEY: Well, first, Jake, thanks for that walk down memory lane.

I'd forgotten that I lost.

(LAUGHTER) ROMNEY: To the point...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I'm citing it only as an example of your -- of your dignity and grace, Senator.

I mean, like, I know you're being self-effacing, but, like, I'm citing it because it's a model for how democracy works.

ROMNEY: I just don't think you can expect President Trump to respond and react the way presidential candidates have in the past.

He's a very different person than presidential candidates in the past. He has his own manner. And he is responding in a way which is entirely (AUDIO GAP) with everything we have seen during his campaigns, and, of course, during his presidency.

So, he's going to do what he's going to do. But, in the final analysis, there's going to be a recount, I'm sure, in a number of states. There will be investigation carried out. And there will be a resolution in the courts, if necessary.

And when that's all said and done, the president doesn't have a choice.

People think, well, gosh, can we remove him from office? You don't have to remove him from office. If he -- if he doesn't win on a legitimate basis, why, then, he ceases to be president when Joe Biden is sworn in. It's as simple as that.

So, I would -- I would prefer to see the world watching a more graceful departure, but that's just not in the nature of the man.

TAPPER: President-elect Biden said last night that he has a mandate, basically, to compromise. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The refusal of Democrats and Republicans to cooperate with one another, it's not some mysterious force beyond our control. It's a decision, a choice we make. And if we can decide not to cooperate, then we can decide to cooperate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, that's president-elect Biden putting out his hand of compromise to Republicans.

I have heard from you today areas where you think you can agree and work together, at the very least.

But there are a lot of Trump allies, Senator Cruz, Senator Graham, out there echoing President Trump's false claims about the election.

Do you think that Republicans in the Senate will ultimately be able to work with president-elect Biden once he becomes president and actually do the business of the American people?

ROMNEY: Well, we have no choice. And we have a responsibility that we're going to have to live up to.

We begin, I think, with an immediate need to get relief to families and small businesses that are suffering as a result of the economic downturn associated with COVID. That's something we're going to have to do, and we're going to have to do it on a bipartisan basis.

[09:30:03]

And I think you're going to recognize as well that we will be able to work together on health care and education and the environment.

Does that mean we will see eye to eye entirely? No. But I think the president-elect recognizes that Republicans gained seats in Congress. Republicans overall did better than Democrats overall in this election.

So, if it comes down to a question about, well, what does America want in terms of policy, pretty clear they don't want the Green New Deal. Pretty clear they don't want Medicare for all, don't want higher taxes, don't want to get rid of oil and gas and coal.

The American people are more conservative than they are progressive, so to speak. And any argument to the contrary, I think, is going to be met with a lot of resistance from the American people and from members of Congress.

Can we find common ground? Yes. And if Joe Biden works with Republicans in the Senate, he's going to find that we will be able to find common ground. After all, he's been there a long time himself. He knows what it takes to get things done in that chamber.

TAPPER: I would agree with you that it was a good night for Republicans in general on Election Day, except for President Trump.

As you note, as of right now, Republicans have picked up four seats in the House. Republicans have maintained control of the Senate, at least as of right now. The rejection was not necessarily of conservatism. It was of President Trump.

I know it's not been easy for you, as somebody standing up for facts and for basic decency and dignity, during the Trump era. At times, you have been -- you have commented on it yourself -- like the skunk at a garden party.

I'm wondering how you think history will judge the Republican Party during this era. I'm not talking about Justice Amy Coney Barrett or tax cuts. I'm talking about mocking the disabled. I'm talking about child separation. I'm talking about 25,000 lies by President Trump and the complicity of so many Republican leaders in just basic indecency by President Trump.

ROMNEY: I think everybody has to make their own decision as to when they're going to speak out and when they're not. I think it was Senator Richard Burr who was asked about a tweet which

some people found offensive and what he thought about it. And he said, if I spend my career here in the Senate responding to every tweet of the president's I disagree with, why, that's all I'd be doing.

And so I think people had to make an assessment as to when it was appropriate and necessary to speak out. I probably did so more frequently than some others. But there were other folks like myself who did speak out when they felt that the president had gone across a bright red line.

I also don't think that history will look at a party so much as it looks at individuals, and everybody has to do what they feel is right.

I think my colleagues -- and I know I have had conversations with a number of Republican senators, some more troubled than others by things that were going on. But each person followed their conscience in the way they thought was best and did what they thought was right.

And some recognize we got to get along even when we disagree, and there's no particular upside in criticizing every fault. And I don't intend to criticize every fault of a president like Biden either.

I will -- I will, from time to time, I'm sure, have something to say when I think he makes a big mistake, and I'm sure he will make mistakes from time to time. But, as to a daily commentary on President Trump's faults or the faults of future presidents, I think that's something for each individual to assess on their own.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

Best to you and Ann.

ROMNEY: Thanks, Jake. Good to be with you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source