CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders

Interview

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TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

President-elect Joe Biden will not take office until January, but the intraparty fight between moderates and progressives is already under way, to a degree, playing out this week on Twitter, for example, when progressive Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez posted this photo of herself throwing shade at moderate Democratic Senator Joe Manchin after he criticized a -- quote -- "crazy socialist agenda."

How might this ideological struggle impact a Biden administration?

Here to discuss, independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont,

Senator Sanders, it's great to see you again. Glad you're doing well.

Before we get to that, President Trump is still refusing to accept reality and concede the election to president-elect Joe Biden. How worried are you that he could actually try to stay in power beyond January 20? What level of threat do you think the lack of progress on a transition poses to the country?

SANDERS: Well, I am less and less worried about it, because, as more and more victories state by state are confirmed for Biden, I think public support, in any way, shape, or form for the president is now going down.

But I will say this, Jake. Trump will have the distinction of doing more than any person in the history of this country in undermining American democracy.

The idea that he continues to tell his supporters that the only reason he may have lost this election is because of fraud is an absolutely disgraceful, un-American thing to do. And I would just hope to God that he has the decency in him to man up and say, you know what, we fought hard, we lost the election, good luck to Joe Biden, I love America.

But the fact that he is not even cooperating in the transition, the fact that he continues to deny reality and continue to suggest that Biden has illegally won the election, is beyond belief, in terms of behavior for an American president.

TAPPER: Yes, it's crazy. And it's based on nothing.

The Trump administration says it plans to distribute tens of millions of vaccine doses in the coming months once it's been approved. Pfizer signed a deal with the Trump administration to sell its vaccine through Operation Warp Speed. Moderna is developing its vaccine with federal dollars.

Does the Trump administration deserve some credit here?

SANDERS: Well, I think they put an emphasis on trying to get this vaccine done as quickly as possible. They were not alone. Everybody else worked together.

We have a global pandemic. We have lost in this country over 245,000 lives. Those numbers are going up every single day. So, I think common sense suggests that we needed a vaccine as quickly as possible.

Now, as you heard Dr. Fauci say, the challenge now is, once you get the vaccine, how do you get it out to 300 million people as quickly and as effectively as possible? And I look forward to the Biden administration working right now, as I know they are, on plans to do that.

[09:25:00]

One of the concerns that we have is that, as a result of the pandemic, in all 50 states in this country right now, you're seeing our medical resources, doctors, nurses, hospitals, being stretched to their limit.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: And we are going to need to figure out a way in Congress to deal with that problem.

TAPPER: Now, you have vowed to try to push the Biden administration to accomplish progressive goals, saying, -- quote -- "Our struggle is not over. It has just begun."

At best, you're going to have -- Democrats are going to have a 50/50 Senate, at best. It's very possible Republicans will control that chamber.

How specifically do you plan to push the Biden administration to enact these progressive goals, when the Senate is going to be in the situation it's in? SANDERS: Well, as you know, during the early parts of this campaign,

the Biden folks and our people sat down together, and we worked out a number of proposals on some of the major issues facing this country, including health care, including the economy, education, climate change, and so forth and so on.

I fully expect that the Biden administration will be advocating those proposals that they agreed to.

And what I want to say is, I sometimes find it amusing when our opponents talk about the far left agenda. The truth is that, when you talk about raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, when you're talking about expanding health care to all people as a human right, when you talk about effectively taking on climate change, when you talk about making public colleges and universities tuition-free, these are not far left ideas.

These are commonsense ideas that the majority of the American people support. And we are going to fight to make sure that they are implemented.

TAPPER: But there are some Democrats arguing that progressive voices and policies hurt down-ballot Democrats in the last election.

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn told Politico that, if Democrats in Georgia in these run-off elections coming up -- quote -- "run on Medicare for all, defund the police, socialized medicine, we're not going to win" -- unquote.

Now, I hear you on the minimum wage. But, on those other issues, given that Biden's margins...

SANDERS: Let's rephrase that.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: Nobody I know who is running for office talks about defunding the police.

What we talk about is making police officers accountable, making sure that police departments do what they can do best, figuring out how you deal with mental illness, how you deal with homelessness, whether those are, in fact, police responsibilities, making sure that police officers are not killing innocent African-Americans.

That is not defund the police.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: Second of all, you go to the people in Georgia, let's do a poll, do a CNN poll. Ask the people in Georgia whether everybody in that state should have health care as a human right.

Ask the people in Georgia whether or not they want to rebuild their crumbling infrastructure and create decent-paying jobs at decent wages. I think you will find the people of Georgia and people all over this country saying, yes, we need to rebuild our infrastructure, we need to create millions of good-paying jobs.

TAPPER: It appears that the margins for Biden's victory came from the suburbs, though.

And I wonder if -- I mean, the way you phrased it is one thing, but another way to phrase it might be -- even Medicare for all. A lot of people who voted for Joe Biden might not want Medicare for all. He didn't run with Medicare for all.

I'm wondering if you think there is some sort of calibration that might be necessary in order for Democrats to win those Senate seats?

SANDERS: Well, first thought -- and I haven't exhaustively studied all of the exit polls -- one of the things that we do know is that youth turnout was very, very high across the country, and especially high in states like Georgia, off the charts, in fact.

And young people voted overwhelmingly for Biden. And young people, by and large, are the most progressive generation facing this country.

Also, what we looked at and saw is that working people, people making less than $50,000, making less than $99,000, also voted for Biden. And I think, if you ask those people, should we create the jobs that we need, should we raise the minimum wage, should we expand health care to cover all people in this country, I think you will find that the answer is yes.

You know, Jake, all of my life, political life, no matter what you do, we will be attacked by the establishment, by big money interests. And yet, today, we are living in a nation with massive income and wealth inequality. People on top are doing phenomenally well, while working- class people today are suffering at a level we have not seen since the Great Depression.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: What Congress has got to do immediately, with a COVID-19 package, is start protecting the working families of this country.

TAPPER: So, we're out of time, but I just want to get a yes or no, because you have said this week you would be willing to serve as labor secretary in the Biden/Harris administration if you were asked.

Have you had any conversations with anyone from the Biden transition team about a possible Cabinet post?

[09:30:01]

SANDERS: I talk to the Biden administration. I want to do my best in whatever capacity, as a senator or in the administration, to protect the working families of this country.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, always good to have you on the show, sir. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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