CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Congressman Adam Kinzinger

Interview

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[09:36:52]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

President Trump's demand for more direct payments to Americans, in reality, is leaving them with nothing at all.

A $900 billion coronavirus relief bill is sitting in Mar-a-Lago, as his attention is focused on pardoning loyalists and spreading conspiracies about the election. It's all leaving Republicans in Congress in a very tough spot, forced to decide whether they will help Americans or the man who is still the head of the party.

Joining us now, one of the very few House Republicans willing to speak truth to power, Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois.

Thank you so much for joining me this morning, Congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So, let's start with that bill that the -- that is sitting in Mar-a-Lago.

The House will vote tomorrow on President Trump's -- excuse me -- start with the veto of the defense bill, rather. The president -- the House will vote on that tomorrow.

The House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, has indicated that many House Republicans won't vote against the president, even though they supported the bill the first time. My question to you is, do you think the votes are there to override

the president's veto on this multibillion-dollar, highly bipartisan defense bill?

KINZINGER: Yes, I certainly hope so.

This is something we have done for 50-some straight years. It was vetoed for nonsensical reasons, this whole Section 230, which has nothing to do with national defense or the NDAA. Somebody just got in the president's ear and convinced him.

And so we had way more than two-thirds votes to pass this. I don't understand. I could not justify if I voted for this bill and then voted to sustain the president's veto, instead of override it. I do not know how you justify that, besides saying, I'm just going to do what the president wants.

This is a great bill. This goes after China, Russia. It does a lot to shore up our cyber-defenses, which, as we have seen, are extremely vulnerable.

To sustain the president's veto, after you voted for this bill, I just don't understand.

BASH: You don't understand, but are you confident that enough of your fellow Republicans will have the same mind-set?

KINZINGER: You know, I hope so.

I don't want to say I'm confident, because it's just -- we're in such a time that I just have no idea right now. But we passed with a significant amount of votes. There is some flex to lose some people that voted for it that don't vote to override the veto.

I just -- that would be a tough one for me to explain. I just don't know how you do it. So, hopefully, we can still get it overridden.

BASH: OK, so let's talk about the stimulus bill that President Trump is demanding Congress revise to increase the size of stimulus checks to $2,000.

Again, your leader, Kevin McCarthy, he blocked an effort by Democrats to do just that earlier. Senate Republicans have said that number is a nonstarter.

Meanwhile, unemployed Americans lost benefits as of last night because President Trump has not signed the bill. So, what do you think is going to happen next?

KINZINGER: So, this just shows the chaos of the whole thing.

I was on a call with Secretary Mnuchin. And he had talked about getting to this point, having negotiated, presumably, on behalf of the president of the United States. That was his person at the table.

[09:40:05] They came to an agreement. I mean, none of us totally like the bill. It's the nature of legislating. You're not going to end up with anything perfect.

But we passed it because this was the agreed-upon number. It's what the president negotiated. And then for him to come out and say, now I'm going to veto it for the $2,000 checks, fine. If you want to make it $2,000 checks, negotiate that from the beginning.

Let's have the discussion after this bill is signed, because, right now, we're at a point where people are left out in the dark. But to play this old switcheroo game, which is just kind of like, I don't get the point. I don't understand what's being done, why, unless it's just to create chaos and show power and be upset because you lost the election.

Otherwise, I don't understand it, because this just has to get done. Too many people are relying on this. We have worked hard. We should have had this done a lot earlier. And now to be put in a lurch, after the president's own person negotiated something that the president doesn't want, it's just -- it's surprising.

But we will have to find a way out.

BASH: And when you walk down the street in your district, you talk to your constituents, who undoubtedly need help, and ask, where are their checks, where is -- where is the relief that you, Congressman, voted for, what do you say? How do you explain what the president is doing?

KINZINGER: Well, I say what I just said.

The problem is, in this day and age, the president can get on Twitter or make a statement, or the -- certain people can, and it just seems like it's all Congress' fault.

Look, Congress ain't a pretty institution, trust me. Negotiations between people and sides that have far disagree -- big disagreements, it always ends up with something that's not pretty. But the bottom line is, that's the process of negotiating.

And then, at the end, to say, OK, we have gotten to this after all this negotiation, now I'm just going to veto it and leave everybody in a lurch, the president then needs to put out his option.

The other thing he's done is conflated two totally different things, the COVID bill and then the omnibus bill, which is just general government spending. This is money that would have been spent whether we had COVID or not. It includes things like foreign aid.

But to then say that we're giving money to other countries in the COVID bill is disingenuous. And it totally conflates two different issues. But -- and it doesn't do a service to the American people to explain what's going on and how these things are different.

BASH: I want to look ahead to January 6, when the Electoral College results will be before a joint session of Congress. President Trump and Vice President Pence met with some Republicans at the White House this week. A number of Senate Republicans, some House Republicans haven't ruled out contesting at various points the election results. What do you expect to happen?

KINZINGER: I expect there will be a little chaos.

This is a scam, though. I mean, to explain to people that somehow Congress can overthrow the certified results of every state, that we can change an election outcome, when there was not a single court case that had any legs -- I mean, even if you believe that somehow the courts were inept in this whole process, if somehow you believe that this whole election was stolen, the reality is, there is no impetus to overthrow an election, even if you want to, and there's no ability to overthrow an election, even if you want to.

And so all that's being done is, certain members of Congress, the president, et cetera, and like -- quote, unquote -- "thought leaders" on Twitter are getting retweets, they're getting followers, they're raising money on this scam.

It is a scam. It is going to disappoint the people that believe this election was stolen, that think this is an opportunity to change it.

But, instead of being disappointed in the people that led them on this grifting scam, they're going to somehow try to convince these people that it was, I don't know, what's the new word, the RINOs in Congress or something like that, and not the Constitution that prevents this from happening in the first place.

We talk about the Constitution. We have to follow it. And I'm sorry if that doesn't mean that the outcome was what you wanted.

BASH: Well, you have talked about some of the things that have happened.

We have heard and seen a lot of crazy things coming from the White House in the last couple of weeks, pardons for allies, including Roger Stone and Paul Manafort. We have seen and heard talk of declaring martial law, baseless allegations of a stolen election, as you were just talking about, mixed signals over military funding and COVID relief.

But the president still has more time left in office. Are you actually worried about what he and people who support him still might do?

KINZINGER: I don't know about worried.

I'm concerned to an extent about January 6, because, if you convince people that Congress can change a legitimate election, and everything was stolen, and there's a deep state slash/QAnon theory driving this, which is that it's satanist pedophiles that run the government, you could see people being driven to violence. So, I'm concerned about that.

In terms of anything else, look, the guardrails of the Constitution are there. In terms of martial law and the military, for instance, which has been discussed, the Pentagon and the military wouldn't implement that.

[09:45:06]

As a lieutenant colonel in the military, I know that I can't follow through on an illegal order, even if it comes from the president. So, I'm not concerned to that level.

But with the concern I have right now and why I have been so outspoken is, I grew up as a Republican because I believe in smaller government and strong national defense. And that's being destroyed by conspiracies right now and anger.

And I really do worry about the future of my party.

BASH: Well, we're definitely going to have a lot to talk about when it comes to the future of your party ahead in 2021 and beyond.

Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it.

KINZINGER: Yes, great. It's good to be with you.

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