CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Michael McCaul

Interview

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REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: So, you conducted your own investigation into the pandemic's origins on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. And your committee was just briefed on this last week.

Based on what you have seen, do you think it's more likely than not that the coronavirus emerged naturally or from a lab accident?

MCCAUL: You know, I do think it's more likely than not it emerged out of the lab, most likely accidentally, for several reasons.

And, first of all, Jake, let me say, this is the worst cover-up in human history that we have seen, resulting in 3.5 million deaths, creating economic devastation around the globe.

As you mentioned, though, it was just declassified that three of the researchers were actually hospitalized in November of 2019 with flu- like symptoms consistent with COVID. That was suppressed by the Chinese Communist Party.

Since that time, in December, they silenced and detained the doctors who were reporting a SARS-like virus, which, under international health regulations, had to be reported within 24 hours. They went and destroyed lab samples. They wouldn't admit it was human-to-human and then, working with the WHO, failed to report to the world that we had a local -- local epidemic that was now going into a global pandemic.

So, time and time again, we're seeing this cover-up. A couple more facts here, that there were two State Department cables in 2018 that called into question the safety protocols at that lab. And let's not forget, in 2004, with SARS virus, they accidentally leaked the SARS virus from that lab in 2004.

They were studying corona-like viruses from bats, genetically mutating them, and then trying to develop a vaccine for what would be a next wave of a SARS-like virus, almost precisely what COVID-19 is.

TAPPER: So, let me ask you.

President Biden has ordered this 90-day review by the intelligence community to see what they think. If they conclude the same thing that you have -- and there's no reason to think that they wouldn't -- what should the world do? What should President Biden do?

MCCAUL: Well, I'm glad the president finally has done this. It's long overdue.

I think, because they have destroyed everything at the lab, it could be very inconclusive. We have SIGINT, signals intelligence and HUMINT and other forms of intelligence, but it may not be 100 percent. But I think saying it's more likely than not is probably the right answer here.

My response to this whole thing is supply chain. We need to pull our supply chain out of the region, that being medical supply, rare earth mineral supply. And a bill that's going through Congress right now, bipartisan, that I'm working on, the CHIPS for America Act, advanced semiconductor chips, which are sort of the brains in everything from your iPhone to the F-35, if we can pull these chains out of China, it will hurt them economically.

And that would be very punitive in nature.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about this pressing life-or-death issue in Afghanistan right now that you and I have talked about.

Thousands of Afghans who helped U.S. troops could be and, in all likelihood, will be slaughtered by the Taliban once U.S. service members withdraw completely. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Mark Milley says that -- quote -- "There are plans being developed very, very rapidly" -- unquote to evacuate them.

The head of the nonprofit group No One Left Behind, who you and I both know, he says that these Afghans and their families should be immediately evacuated to Guam, and, after they're safe in Guam, the U.S. can deal with their visas, et cetera.

Do you support that idea?

MCCAUL: Well, I do think they need to be protected.

General Milley said that we need to keep our promises here. We have a moral responsibility and obligation to protect them. Who are these people? There are about 18,000 of them that have applied for special immigrant visas because they served with our special forces, with our troops in Afghanistan.

The interpreters put their lives on the line. Our guys couldn't have done the job without them. And the old saying no man left behind, No One Left Behind organization, it's a fine organization with special operators who have worked with these people -- for us to leave them behind, only to be slaughtered by the Taliban, which is looking more and more like what's going to happen here, would really be unconscionable.

So, when the State Department says, oh, it's going to take a year or two to process these visas -- and, remember, that's 18 -- there are probably about 50,000 of them. We can't leave them.

[09:35:00]

As the military is talking about withdrawing in July -- they're going to withdraw earlier than we anticipated. And that's when they're going to be in the bullseye in the target of the Taliban.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCCAUL: I think we could easily -- and General Milley has said this, and General McKenzie, the CENTCOM commander, has said that they have plans, contingency plans, under way to evacuate them.

They have the capability to evacuate them out at night to the United States -- or Afghanistan. Where that is, that's really their choice to make. But I believe, if they don't -- because what you're seeing right now is a spring offensive by the Taliban taking over northern and southern parts, taking over bases that have been abandoned.

And it's a matter of time before I think the entire country gets overrun by the Taliban. And I really, Jake, very much about the safety and security of our embassy itself.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCCAUL: I don't want to see another Saigon go down like we saw in Vietnam, the same thing happen in Afghanistan.

And, lastly, the women left behind, we're already seeing what they're doing to them in the schools, and how they're going to degrade women and little girls in Afghanistan.

I think the decision made -- the president made this decision, but I don't think they're really prepared for the aftermath and what is necessary, both from a human refugee standpoint and from a counterterrorism mission standpoint.

TAPPER: Yes.

At home, let me ask you, the Texas Senate just voted this morning to pass a sweeping new bill restricting voting rights. A draft bill would ban drive-through voting. It would stop local officials from mailing ballots to all voters. It also would make it easier for judges to overturn an election without requiring evidence that fraud changed the race's outcome.

This is not your legislation, but you are a Texas Republican. What do you say to people who look at what's going on with this kind of law and say Republicans are trying to make it harder to vote because they can't win the battle of ideas ultimately, so they're just trying to, for instance, make it tougher for black Americans to do Soul to the Polls voting by saying you can only do voting on Sundays after 1:00 p.m.?

I mean, that's how it looks to millions of people.

MCCAUL: Right.

And this, as I understand, passed at 6:00 a.m. I haven't had a chance to look at it or really comment. I know it's going to a conference committee.

There are a couple of fundamentals here, though, that -- that I think most Americans do agree with. And that is asking for an I.D. when someone votes. I don't believe that's voter suppression. I think 70 percent of Americans agree with that idea.

And then the idea of verifying signatures, I think, is very important as well. I think what the Republicans here would tell you is that they're trying to make sure that the person voting is the person on paper, so it's a legitimate vote devoid of fraud.

Now, we can debate whether -- how much fraud occurred in the last election, and Democrats have claimed fraud had happened in the prior previous elections.

But one thing is pretty clear to me, Jake, is that a lot of the American people seem to have lost faith in our government. They have lost faith in our elections, that we need to restore.

And I think, if we can take measures to take fraud out of the system or any potential for fraud -- now, COVID was a very different circumstance, where you had different voting measures and longer periods of time.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCCAUL: And I'm all for longer early voting times. But I'm also for counting the votes during early voting, so you don't -- you're not waiting a month or two after the election to see who actually won it.

TAPPER: Right, but, Congressman, I mean, Texas had a very successful, very clean election. And Republicans did really, really well. You won a bunch of congressional districts that Democrats thought they were going to -- they were going to win.

"The Houston Chronicle" reports there are only 43 pending voter fraud charges in Texas. Just to repeat that for our viewers, not 43,000, not 4,300, 43. And only one of them, one, is from the 2020 election.

This -- again, I don't disagree with what you're saying about polls and the American people supporting making sure that there isn't fraud, but this goes beyond that. This is -- this is -- I mean, why would you make it -- why would the legislators -- not you -- why would those legislators make it easier for a judge to throw out an election without even having to -- without anyone having to prove that there's fraud?

MCCAUL: Yes.

And, of course, these 70 cases in the presidential got thrown out as well. But I do think -- I think the intent -- and I'm not in the state legislature -- is to restore confidence in the elections that fraud isn't taking place.

Now, you're -- you make a good point. I'm a federal prosecutor. In a court of law, that hasn't really been borne to bear. This may be more of an optics issue, restoring confidence with the American people and in my state who actually do believe there was tremendous fraud.

[09:40:05]

In any event, I think there's -- there are small measures we can take, whether it's voter I.D. or signature verification, that I think we give the American people more trust in our elections, which, by the way, the Russians didn't give us much confidence either, or what the Chinese tried to do either in our elections.

TAPPER: Yes.

Speaking of getting to the bottom of things and people having trust, I was surprised to read, frankly, that you had voted against creating the January 6 commission, even though you had backed similar legislation earlier this year.

I just want you to take a listen to what Gladys Sicknick, the mother of Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick, who died after the insurrection, told me on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLADYS SICKNICK, MOTHER OF BRIAN SICKNICK: If they had a child that was hurt, was killed on a day like that, they would think very differently, or if they were hurt. I mean, they could have very well -- somebody could have been killed.

They are elected for us, the people. And they don't care about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, you're a former federal prosecutor, as you noted.

Back in 2014, I agreed with you when you said this about House Republicans' sixth investigation into the attack on the consulate in Benghazi. You said -- quote -- "Tragically, we still do not have answers as to how it could have happened, what exactly occurred in the critical response hours. We owe it to the victims, their families and the American people to find out the truth."

I agreed with you then, but I wonder why you don't have the same feeling here about this commission?

MCCAUL: Well, it was a dark day in American history.

As you know, I voted for certification. It was my constitutional duty...

TAPPER: Absolutely.

MCCAUL: ... once the states certified -- certified the ballots.

But I also at that time, in the aftermath, was the first one to call for a DOJ investigation into this. And you know what, Jake? That happened.

In essence, I view this not as an overview of policy, like the 9/11 Commission did. It's a criminal investigation, a criminal case. In my judgment, that properly falls within the venue, the purview of the Department of Justice, where I worked for many years, rather than a politically appointed commission.

And the reason why I say this, I have been on the other side in the Department of Justice when I prosecuted the campaign finance investigation while ongoing in Congress was another investigation. And what happened, it provided duplicative testimonies. It undermined our federal investigation.

My judgment is ,for right now, let's let this DOJ investigation go forward. They have arrested over 400 people now responsible. I want those responsible to be held accountable and put behind bars. And I want all the answers as to what happened on January 6, and then report it to Congress.

I think Congress should have a full report on this DOJ investigation that I don't believe will be tainted by politics, whereas some other methods could be. I think the DOJ, having been a part of that for so long, really is where this properly should be to get to the bottom of what happened. And then, really, let's get to prosecuting and putting these people behind bars.

TAPPER: Congressman Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas, thank you so much for being with us.

I hope you have a meaningful Memorial Day. I know your father was a World War II veteran. And we appreciate his service.

MCCAUL: No, thank you, Jake, and you as well.

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