CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Jim Clyburn

Interview

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TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

One week, that's how long Democrats have to come to an agreement on two bills they have tied together, two bills that total more than $4 trillion in new spending.

But with some senators saying they only support one of those bills, and progressives in the House saying it's both bills or nothing, Democrats now risk passing neither of them.

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TAPPER: Joining us now, the number three Democrat in the House of Representatives, Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

So, dozens of progressives in your caucus, in the Democratic Caucus, say they're going to vote no on the bipartisan infrastructure deal on September 27, if a sweeping $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill isn't also passed by then.

Given the fact that you currently don't have 50 votes in the Senate either, it therefore seems pretty unlikely that the reconciliation package will pass both the House and Senate in just the next eight days, don't you think?

CLYBURN: Well, thank you very much for having me, Jake.

Well, you know, we are negotiating. And, of course, we have a pretty big tent in our party. We have progressives that are very, very important, not just to the party, but to the country.

And we have more moderates. And that's how it should be. We reflect what this country is all about. And we have a pretty evenly divided country these days. And all of us are working through that.

So, I know that everybody in our party understand that the country is at a point that we must do some things that we would not do ordinarily. And some of these things are going to be pretty -- pretty expensive.

But the expense, real expense is in not doing them. We cannot continue with this pandemic. We've got to spend the money that's necessary to get beyond it. We have got to do something about our infrastructure. Bridges are breaking down all over, and we've got to do something about it.

The expense...

TAPPER: But the progressives are going to vote against the bipartisan infrastructure plan when it comes to the House floor on September 27 unless it also comes with the $3.5 trillion budget deal.

You're not going to have that passed by September 27, are you?

CLYBURN: Well, we can. That's my point, unless -- let's make sure that we never get to that point.

And that's why we have so much work going on now. Our leadership is on this. We are working with everybody in all corners of our party. They're trying to get to a common ground on all of these issues. And I feel very comfortable that we are going to get there.

TAPPER: So, you're certain the House will still vote on this bipartisan infrastructure bill on September 27 and that it will pass? Or is it also possible you'll delay the vote?

CLYBURN: Well, there's always a possibility that the vote would get delayed.

But the question is, are we going to work to get to our goal for September 27? Yes. We are going to work hard to reach that goal. And, sometimes, you have to kind of stop the clock to get to the goal. We'll do what's necessary to get there.

TAPPER: You suggested on CNN last week that the reconciliation bill could be less than $3.5 trillion.

Senator Manchin said on this show last week that he wants a price tag closer to $1.5 trillion. At the end of the day, where do you think this is ultimately going to land, $2 trillion, $2.5 trillion?

CLYBURN: Well, I have no idea.

I also said last week that we ought to stop focusing on the number and start looking at what needs to be done. And if we are comfortable that we are doing everything that needs to be done for the American people, then let the experts put the number on it, and that will determine how much we need to spend.

And so it may be 3.5. It may be close to that, or it may be closer to something else. So, I think that we ought to really focus on the American people and think about what it takes to get us in a good place, and then let the numbers take care of themselves.

[09:40:09]

TAPPER: Well, that's a nice sentiment, but you have Manchin in the Senate saying he wants it closer to $1.5 trillion, and progressives in the House, like Tlaib, Bowman, and Jayapal, Cori Bush, they're suggesting they won't go lower than $3.5 trillion at all.

I don't need to tell you, you only have three votes to spare in the House. Are you confident you're going to have the votes to pass a reconciliation bill less than $3.5 trillion?

CLYBURN: Well, let's just say I'm comfortable with where we are.

Yes, I believe in our party. I believe in our leadership. I believe in all of the members that make up this great tent that we operate under. I think we'll get there.

It's going to take some work, and we are going to do the work. I don't know that there's anybody in our party who feels that we cannot get there. They just want to make sure that all of the I's are dotted, the T's are crossed and that we are responding to the American people's needs and aspirations.

TAPPER: Are you telling both the moderates and the progressives in this debate that they need to compromise, or is it just Joe Manchin, for example, who needs to compromise? Or is it just the progressives who need to come down from the $3.5 trillion?

CLYBURN: Well, you know, I've been in this business a long time.

You know, one thing I have found out, that, in politics, as in families, you sit down and you find -- try to find common ground. Now, some people may call that compromise. I call that doing what is necessary to maintain the integrity of the whole body.

And that's what we're going to do. You're going to find common ground. And you may want to call it compromise, but that's what I call it, finding common ground. TAPPER: Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says the U.S. may hit its debt limit next month.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell says Republicans will not vote to raise the debt limit. Will Democrats just fold it into a continuing resolution for -- on the budget or the reconciliation plan and pass it with only Democratic votes? What's the plan there?

CLYBURN: Well, I don't know that we have a plan to do that, but I certainly would advocate doing that.

You know, when I was whip before, we had the responsibility of keeping the country from going under after the Great Recession back in 2008. And the Republicans, the majority then walked away from that.

And we filled in the void and did it as a party, and we'll do that again. The full faith and credit of the United States of American should not be compromised on the altar of politics. And I would hope that our Republican friends would get beyond politics and do what's necessary to keep this country moving forward and keep us, financially, integrity in place.

TAPPER: But you're not relying on your Republican friends to vote that way, right? You're -- you're fine with it passing in a Democrats- only vote?

CLYBURN: No, I'm not fine with that. But if that's what it takes, that's what it will take. The American people will see what the Republicans are doing on this front as well.

They're doing enough on the social front to destroy the integrity of this country's fabric. And they will see them doing the same thing on the financial front. I think we ought to do what's necessary and message to the American people exactly who is trying to destroy this great democracy that we hope to keep in place.

TAPPER: I do want to ask you about what we saw yesterday.

It was a fairly paltry turnout for the Justice for January 6 rally in support of the insurrectionists. Thankfully, it was not particularly violent. There were only four arrests.

But you were there at the Capitol on January 6 when this riot, this attempted insurrection, happened. What is it like to see not only Americans protesting in support of these criminals, but so many of your colleagues in the House of Representatives express support for their cause?

CLYBURN: Well, you know, they made some political calculations that paid off last year in many parts of the country. But I think the American people, in the last several months, have begun to look at exactly what's going on here, and they are rejecting that.

Now, I know that people talk about California as being the left coast, or whatever they may derisively call it. But California's result, I think, shows that the American people are sick and tired of the posturing. They are sick and tired of the lying.

[09:45:10]

They want to see this country in a place that they can leave something for their children and grandchildren, as their forbearers left for them. And that's where we are.

And so I think that what you saw on Saturday is a more reflection of that. What you see with these many Republicans not choosing to run again, some switching parties, all of those things are reflections of the fact that the American people see in the Democratic Party the future of what this country ought to be and where this country can go.

And I believe you're gong to see that time and time again.

TAPPER: Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the number three House Democrat, thanks so much for being with us today.

CLYBURN: Well, thank you very much for having me.

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