MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Jon Tester

Interview

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HAYES: Everyone knows every time Republicans threaten to refuse to raise the debt ceiling, there`s a Democrat White House. Just so you understand, the debt ceiling is not some essential piece of American governance. It`s not new spending. It`s basically saying like, we will pay the debts we already incurred. We`re going to pay our bills. And it`s the thing that Republicans remember to whine about when they are not in power. That`s simple.

As Senator Jon Tester very astutely told Politico, we always do this effing dance. I don`t know if people are going to put their same minds on and do what needs to be done or shut it down. This is just a ridiculous exercise. I can`t even compare it to anything I do on the farm that`s this stupid.

Joining now, Senator Jon Tester, Democrat of Montana. A lot of people identify that quote because it seems so true. It truly is a ridiculous institution to everyone`s minds. You know, when you go out and you pay for dinner on a credit card, that`s when you`re making the decision to buy the meal. But you can`t go home and two weeks later and say, I`m just not going to pay the credit card bill or bad things will ensue.

SEN. JON TESTER (D-MT): You`re exactly right. That`s a great correlation. This is -- the money has already been spent. And now, we have to pay the bills. So, that`s what the debt limit is about. Look, neither party is innocent when it comes to adding to the debt. The deficit is about $29 million right now. I`m as concerned as anybody with the debt.

But for a matter of fact, this last year, we passed the Cares Act because the economy was tanking because of COVID. We did a couple other extraordinary measures to take care of the coronavirus pandemic, and spent that money. And now when it comes to paying the bills -- and by the way, we did that in a Republican House, a Republican Senate, and with a Republican president. And now, when it comes to paying the bills, it`s like, no, we`re not going to do that.

Well, it`s great for messaging. But in reality, this will impact the families across this country incredibly negative. It will cause unemployment to spike up to potentially nine percent, some are predicting. It will cause interest rates not only for the federal government on that $29 billion to go through the roof. But for credit card debt, for auto debt, mortgages on homes -- let me put it this way to your viewers. If you`ve got a mortgage on your home like most of us do, and you don`t pay it, you got a problem.

You play it out the credit card, Chris. You go out to have dinner, you come and get that -- get that bill. At the end of the month, and you decide not to pay it, you got any problems. This Chris is going to do bad things to this country. China has been trying to set themselves up as a leader in the world economically. This is like giving them the keys to the car. Here you go China. Take it and run with it. We`re going to do something stupid.

HAYES: I have to explain this to folks. And just I want to walk through it with you. Because Mitch McConnell`s position is, yes, it should get raised, but just not by us, right? OK, fine. He says you guys are the majority. But I feel like I`ve lost my mind. Correct me if I`m wrong. They`re not just not voting for it, they`re actively filibustering it so that you can`t raise it by yourself. Is that correct?

TESTER: Well, that`s correct. And we need 60 votes to pass the debt ceiling. And quite honestly, Mitch McConnell has been here long enough. He knows the rules as well as anybody and better than most, that if we don`t get some Republican votes to do this, then the debt ceiling major fails, and it turns the economy upside down.

And maybe that`s what they want, but it`s certainly not what I want. And it`s certainly not what the people of Montana sent me here in Washington to do.

HAYES: What`s the endgame here? I always -- it`s a little unclear to me. Here`s the two train cars that are set towards each other, right, the debt ceiling and the filibuster, basically, right, unless I`m misunderstanding this. I mean, you could raise the debt ceiling, you got 50 votes to raise the debt ceiling tomorrow, OK. I think every Democrat is going to vote to raise the debt ceiling.

TESTER: I would hope so. I hope they would do the responsible thing is. That`s correct.

HAYES: You got the filibuster, so you can`t. It seems like one is got to give. What am I missing?

TESTER: No, I think -- I think you`re spot on. I mean, I think that if you`ve got to have 60 votes, maybe -- you know, look, maybe Mitch McConnell is advocating for doing away with the filibuster. I don`t know. I mean, the truth is that we`ve got a job to do here that the American public sent us here to do. We work for them. And I think part of our job is making sure we pay for the bills. And if we don`t pay for the bills, then bad things happen just like they do in our households.

[20:50:12]

HAYES: You know, everyone`s -- you can pick it up. Just tell them. Tell them I said that. No -- Biden was on Capitol Hill yesterday or I think at least -- I`m sorry, in the White House meeting with folks from Capitol Hill. And the readout was at his productive meetings.

You know, I said that yesterday, and I think people don`t appreciate this. I think there`s 271 or 272 Democrats on Capitol Hill between House and Senate. And you need like, 269 to agree which, you know, I mean, if you`ve ever, you know, been on like a family vacation with nine people to try to like pick the right -- the same activity is impossible. So, the task here really is a difficult one. What is your sense of where things are at?

TESTER: Well, look, there`s a lot more negotiations that have to be done. We got to make sure that everybody is at the table, not just, you know, three or four or five or 10 people. That everybody is at the table, making sure their opinions are heard. I think everybody has got to be willing to compromise. And I think everybody`s got to be willing to meet at a reasonable -- a reasonable place to do something meaningful for this country moving forward and do the right thing.

Look, when I go home -- and we pass a bipartisan bill, that`s a good piece of legislation, and I could talk about it for the next hour. But the fact is there`s some things that it did not address. It didn`t address things like child care. It didn`t address things like housing. It address-- it ddress climate issues, but we need to do more. And quite frankly, that doesn`t mean we have to spend $3.5 trillion, but it means that we have to do something meaningful and we have to spend that money right.

HAYES: Do you -- who are the people that you talk to? Who are your -- who are the people you`re closest to in the Democratic caucus in the Senate?

TESTER: Oh, look, I try to talk to everybody.

HAYES: That`s a very politician answer.

TESTER: No, it depends on who I eat lunch with. Let`s see. This week, it was it was Booker and it was -- it was Dr. Jeanne Shaheen. I visited Maggie Hassan.

HAYES: Here`s why I`m asking this. I have a -- I have a sense of what the group`s internal in the House are. And I have some sense of, you know, the 10 people, the 10 progressive senators who said, look, we want both or -- you know, both bills to pass. And then you`ve got folks like Manchin and Sinema, I think are in their own category. And I`m just kind of wondering where the other folks in that caucus are?

TESTER: Well, look, I think that you pointed it out. You put a family together, put them on the road, you have a hard time making a decision where you`re going to eat lunch. And it`s the same thing with the Democratic caucus. And I think that if we`re able to get everybody in the room and their opinions are respected, and we actually do compromise, negotiate, we can come up with a deal that does good work for this nation. And I think that`s really the bottom line.

There`s a lot of pressure on Schumer. There`s a lot of pressure on the White House. And they`re working hard. And I will tell you that I think that everybody will come to the table, both from the moderate side, so to speak, and the progressive side. And I think we`re going to end up with something that`s going to work this country.

HAYES: Do you think -- I mean, I this is what everyone says. Everyone does seem to think like this will -- there will be a bill. There`s going to be something that is passed in the United States Senate. And you`re saying that too.

TESTER: Absolutely correct. Look, these people are good people. They want to do the right thing. There are some differences of opinion on what the right thing is. That`s -- you fix those things by communication, just like you do -- just like you do in your marriage. (AUDIO GAP)

WATTERS: It would be really wild to be married at 270 people. I don`t think any amount of communication could necessarily iron things out there.

Senator Jon Tester, thank you for indulging all my thought experiments tonight. I appreciate it.

TESTER: You`re a gentlemen and a scholar. Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: Thank you very much.

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