ABC "This Week" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders

Interview

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STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Manchin, thanks for your time this morning.

I want to bring in Senator Bernie Sanders now.

Senator Sanders, thanks -- thanks for joining us as well.

You just heard Senator Manchin right there. He said he just respectfully disagrees; we shouldn't hold this bipartisan infrastructure package hostage to the reconciliation bill.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, I think maybe the converse is true, that maybe Senator Manchin is holding the reconciliation bill hostage.

As you know, George, from day one, the president of the United States, the speaker of the House, Majority Leader Schumer have made it clear we're going down a two-track approach. Both bills are going together.

I happen to think that Joe Manchin is right. Physical infrastructure is terribly important. But I happen to think that the needs of the human beings of our country, working families, the children, the elderly, the poor are even more important, and we can and must do both.

Look, everybody in America, whether you're Republican, Democrat or independent, understands that, for the last many years, the very richest people in this country and the largest corporations have done phenomenally well, while the working class and the middle class of this country struggle, and we have got close to 600 million (sic) people sleeping out on the streets.

Elderly people in America can't afford to put dentures into their mouth. They have no teeth in their mouth in some cases, can't afford hearing aids, can't afford eyeglasses. Working families cannot afford child care for their kids. Young people cannot afford to go to college.

And then on top of all of that, the scientific community is telling us that we're looking at a cataclysmic crisis in terms of climate. Oregon is burning. California is burning.

People are drowning in New York City. Detroit, flooding. Siberia, largest fire on Earth. Drought all over the world.

The United States must lead the world in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel. This is a crisis.

So what polling tells us is working families all over this country understand that now is the time for Congress to address the long neglected problems facing working families. Now is the time to have the wealthy and large corporations -- we've got billionaires in this country who don't pay a nickel in federal income tax.

So, I think we can do all of this. We can do the physical infrastructure. We can do the reconciliation bill, create millions of good jobs, and finally tell the American people that we are going to stand up for working families. Not just the rich and the powerful.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess the question I have is, how? There's no margin for error in the Senate. If you vote against it, it doesn't pass. If Senator Manchin votes against it, it doesn't pass.

I mean -- so, you're likely, if you both stick to your positions, you're going to end up with nothing.

SANDERS: That is a possibility, and I think that would be a disaster for the American people. But you've got the president of the United States, you've got leadership in the House and the Senate. You've got -- you know, this is not Joe Manchin versus Bernie Sanders.

I would surmise that over 90 percent of Democrats, over 40 Democrats in the Senate would prefer to spend what I propose $6 trillion because they understand the needs facing working families and climate are so great.

So a major compromise has already been made, and there is a real danger, a real danger that this bill will lose, that the infrastructure bill will lose in the House because you've got many people there, and I support them, who are saying, you know what? We had a joint agreement. We're going to go forward together.

Deal with physical structure, deal with the needs of working families. Let's do it. Let's create the jobs.

Let's deal with an expansion of Medicare. Let's deal with climate. That's what we've got to go.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But is no -- is no bill -- let's say, you know, Senator Manchin is -- wouldn't put a timeline on it, but he's come out for about $1.5 trillion for the reconciliation bill. Is no bill better than $1.5 trillion?

SANDERS: Look. What the issue is here is when you have an overwhelming majority of working families in America who want us to do that, when you've got the president, when you got over 90 percent of the people in the House, over 90 percent of the senators want to do it.

The real question you should be asking is, is it appropriate from one person to destroy two pieces of legislation?

Look, Joe Manchin has a right to get his views heard. He's a member of the United States Senate from the great state of West Virginia. He has to sit down with all of us and we'll work it out.

Now, we did. As you know, we had the same exact problem in the American rescue plan, which to my mind was enormously successful in getting us out of the economic recession that took as a result of COVID.

And Joe Manchin and others are going to -- Republicans are going to have to say, well, why are we not extending this $300 direct payment that working payments are now receiving? Do we really want to rescind that when we have cut childhood poverty by half?

So I don't think Joe wants that. I think we're going to work it out, but it would really be a terrible, terrible shame for the American people --

STEPHANOPOULOS: So --

SANDERS: -- if both bills went down. And that is a real danger.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So bottom line, there is going to be a deal, both bills are going to pass?

SANDERS: I believe they will, yes. I think we have the same problem with the American Rescue Plan. We worked together, we did, and I think we're going to do it again.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Sanders, thanks for your time this morning.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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