MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
I`m joined now by a key member of the January 6 committee and a former impeachment manager and chairman of the Intelligence Committee, Congressman Adam Schiff. He`s also the author of the new book "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could."
Thanks for being here, sir.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Great to be with you.
MELBER: The "Still Could" part, I think, hangs over the Congress, your committee`s work, and, specifically, this pressure on Mr. Bannon to either comply -- and then I presume you wouldn`t be seeking contempt or his jailing -- or punishment for violating subpoenas and the rule of law.
What, in your view, does this vote achieve?
SCHIFF: Well, the "Still Could" refers to the fact that the president, the former president, is still out pushing this big lie that led to the insurrection.
And if you convince people that they can`t rely on elections to settle disputes or to decide who should govern, that really leaves the country open to political violence, like we saw on January 6.
In terms of what we hope to achieve with this subpoena to Bannon, with a contempt citation, a referral for criminal prosecution, we want to reinstate the rule of law, that no one is above the law, so that people, when they`re given legal compulsion, don`t just get to decide, nah, I`d rather not show up.
He clearly has relevant information. You alluded to some of it about what went on in the run-up to January 6 with the president, President Trump, what his role in that insurrection was, how much he may have been aware in advance of the propensity for violence and how much that might have been part of the plan.
We also hope to let other witnesses know that, if they too don`t do their civic duty, they will be prosecuted.
MELBER: Yes.
And you -- that came up. Your colleague Congressman Raskin was on with us last night. He alluded to the point you just made that`s so crucial and anyone familiar with investigation knows, which is, if there`s consequences, people tend to cooperate. If there aren`t, then you`re only relying on good samaritans.
And, quite frankly, it doesn`t need to be 2021 to know that there aren`t always enough good samaritans to get all the evidence.
With that in mind, Congressman Raskin told us he expects Bannon will ultimately back down and comply. What is your theory of the case here?
SCHIFF: Well, that`s my expectation too.
If the Justice Department prosecutes -- and I fully expect that they will. They have a duty to present at a grand jury. And I think that they have made it clear by allowing us to interview senior Department of Justice former officials without making a claim of privilege, by making it clear they`re not going to assert privilege over documents we want from the archives.
[18:45:18]
If they do follow through, as we expect, and prosecute, then Steve Bannon will have a choice. He could go to jail for a year, up to a year, in order to cover up potentially for the former president, or he can testify. I think that, faced with that choice, he will do the right thing, even if that`s the last thing on his list.
MELBER: Yes.
I wanted to get your reaction to some of the attacks on the committee itself, because no committee is above reproach. There could be an evidentiary- or policy-based discussion about whether this committee is doing useful work or not.
But some of what we have heard lately is just false and lies. And it comes, interestingly, from people who were seen on that fateful day to be fomenting at least some of the crowd.
I want to put up for viewers, for context, both what Senator Hawley was doing that day and a false claim he makes that I want to give you the benefit to respond. You have a bipartisan committee here. You have Liz Cheney. But he claims it`s all partisan. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I`m not following what I frankly think is a partisan circus over there. It`s pretty disgraceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Your response?
SCHIFF: Well, look, a big lie doesn`t take shape of its own. It`s built upon a scaffold of lies.
And what you heard from Senator Hawley is part of the scaffolding to try to delegitimize any honest look into what happened on January 6, that day, of course, that he gave the fist sign to those insurrectionists outside the Capitol.
I`m not surprised that he doesn`t want us looking into it. I`m not surprised Donald Trump doesn`t want us looking into it. But at the end of the day, I have every confidence that we will persevere. And I`m really quite encouraged by the fact that our committee is so nonpartisan.
All of us on it, conservatives, liberals, are all determined to get to the truth. And that`s what we`re going to do.
MELBER: Yes, appreciate that. Understood.
There`s also some other reports I`d like to get your response to that relate to this. And viewers of THE BEAT know we give great credence to people`s free speech and First Amendment rights, which always includes things you disagree with or things you might even find really vile.
Then there`s these other lines of whether people are actually doing things that go beyond speech, whether some of these militia groups, for example, are fomenting actual violence, hate crimes, et cetera.
And then here`s some reports here from ProPublica, a nonpartisan, independent source, that Oath Keepers are rising in some of these statehouses, a militia movement taking root in the Republican mainstream. They identify, for example, North Carolina state Representative Clampitt and 47 other officials, either elected or local government officials.
And, again, if they were in both parties, Congressman, I`d mentioned that. They happen to all be Republicans in this report, over 400 people signing up for membership of new -- or newsletters that U.S. government, military or political campaign e-mail addresses.
And I`m curious your view, because there is a right to association in this country. But there`s also concern that some of these groups are directly linked to violence.
SCHIFF: Yes, there is a right of association, but there is no right to incite violence.
And you`re right. We have to be very careful to protect people`s First Amendment right to say what they will, to associate with whom they would. But we draw the line, and the First Amendment doesn`t preclude us from doing so, that you cannot conspire to commit crimes, you cannot incite an imminent violent attack on others. So there are limits.
And, also, where we see evidence of a plot to, in the case of some of these white nationalist groups, to kidnap the governor of Michigan or to attack the seat of our democracy in Washington...
MELBER: Yes.
SCHIFF: ... we are not powerless to act.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact. And nothing in the First Amendment precludes us from protecting the country from these violent white nationalist groups.
MELBER: Understood.
And we wanted to get your reaction, given your work on that report.
Congressman Schiff, I know you were quite busy today, because we were jumping around trying to figure out when you could make it to a camera. I appreciate you hanging with us.
I want to remind people, the book is "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could" by Congressman Schiff.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source