CNN "State of the Union" - TRANSCRIPT California Mass Shooting; Interview With Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX); Interview With Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL); Interview With Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV); Interview With Fmr. Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY). Aired 9-10a ET

Interview

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Here with me now is that Democratic senator, Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

Thank you so much for coming in.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Good to be with you, Dana.

BASH: Thank you.

I do want to ask about that, but very quickly of what we're seeing in California. We don't have a lot of details about the suspect or even what kind of gun he had. But you have been pushing for more than a decade for comprehensive universal background checks.

MANCHIN: Well, just gun sense.

I come from a gun society in West Virginia. I have had guns all my life. And we were taught to be responsible for it. We were taught not to sell it or even loan it to a stranger and all this. And now you're throwing all the -- all the caution is being thrown out the window, if you will.

Gun since has to come back to responsibility we all have. And every state has that responsibility. And I would like to see us look at it in a comprehensive way. But background checks, there's nothing wrong with them. I have had to had a background check every time I bought a gun. And the people that I know have no problem with that whatsoever.

And you don't want the people that are irresponsible or criminals to get it in their hands. So, we don't know what's going on here.

BASH: Yes.

MANCHIN: And my hearts and prayers go out to the families of the victims. It's just awful.

BASH: Let's turn to the debt ceiling.

MANCHIN: Yes.

[09:25:00]

BASH: The White House says that they want Congress to pass a clean debt ceiling increase, no negotiations with Republicans at all. Is that a mistake?

MANCHIN: I think it's a mistake, because we have to negotiate.

This is a -- this is a democracy that we have. We have a two-party system, as -- if you will. And we should be able to talk and find out where our differences are. And if they are irreconcilable, then you have to move on from there and let the people make their decisions.

Using the debt ceiling and holding it hostage hasn't worked in the past, OK? And anyone who wants to look at what happened in 2011 and 2013, then go ahead. It didn't work out well. So why...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So, who is holding it hostage in this...

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: Well, the bottom line is saying, first of all, in my state of West Virginia, 60 percent of the people that are retired right now live with Social Security and Medicare.

To scare the bejesus out of them thinking there are going to be -- there are cuts on the line that are going to decimate those two, that's not going to happen. Take that off the board right now and look at ways that we have wasteful spending that we can be held accountable and responsible.

Set a target. Do something. In the states -- and most states have balanced budget amendments. Every week, when I was governor, we had to sit down and agree upon adjustments to cuts, so we ended the fiscal year in a balance or a surplus. That doesn't happen.

BASH: So...

MANCHIN: There's no checks and balances.

BASH: So it sounds like you would be OK with some cuts in spending in exchange for...

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: So, I think that, basically, it's wasteful spending. Everybody believes -- I mean, my goodness, when you have $31.4 trillion, and we have thrown caution to the wind, and to blame the Republicans, Republicans to blame the Democrats, who's at fault?

Everybody's at fault. We don't have a process. I have been there 12 years, no budget.

BASH: So, just to be clear, you think that the White House should come to the table and talk to Republicans about some cuts in spending in exchange for raising the debt ceiling?

MANCHIN: Well, I think, at that time, Vice President Joe Biden did exactly that.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: But you just heard Dick Durbin, the number two Senate Democrat, saying times are different now, they should be.

MANCHIN: I don't -- we just respectfully disagree.

And the only thing about it is, every American has to live within a budget. If they don't, they're in trouble financially. Every business that is successful has to live within a budget. Every state has to live within a budget. Shouldn't the federal government have some guardrails that say, hey, guys, you're getting over -- you're overreaching here and you're overspending?

But then pick your priorities. That's all. The priorities is the security of our country, opportunities for people and taking care of the most vulnerable and making sure the people that have earned it through basically their Social Security and Medicare are protected. Then talk and look at the...

BASH: Well, let's talk about Social Security and Medicare. As part of these negotiations over the debt ceiling, you are suggesting a new committee to come up with ways to make Medicare and Social Security more financially stable.

MANCHIN: Secured.

BASH: I want to be clear there. Are you talking about any cuts to benefits?

MANCHIN: No cuts. No cuts to anybody that's receiving their benefits, no adjustments to that. They earned it. They into it. Take that off the table.

But everyone's using that as a leverage.

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BASH: Receiving their benefits now or at...

MANCHIN: You want to look at everything humanly possible.

BASH: Is it now or the future?

MANCHIN: Well, you have to look at people that, basically, where are they in their working age? What's going on here?

But the bottom line is, Social Security and Medicare basically is running out of cash, because we stop at a certain level when people pay into FICA.

BASH: So you're open to cuts and benefits for future recipients?

MANCHIN: I'm open to basically raising -- the easiest and quickest thing we can do is raise the cap. Everyone says, that's a -- that's a tax...

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BASH: Raise the age?

MANCHIN: No, no, no. Forget the age.

BASH: OK.

MANCHIN: At $150,000 -- I think it's $150,000, $154,000, you quit paying.

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: So, if you're getting a paycheck -- now, in West Virginia, in a state like mine, that the medium income is much lower than that, they're paying 100 percent of the tax.

In wealthier areas, they are paying very small percentage of that tax.

BASH: Your colleague Bernie Sanders tweeted: "The last thing we need is another commission to propose cuts to Social Security and Medicare."

MANCHIN: I agree with him. Bernie and I agree on that. You don't need a committee to look at cuts.

And that's what they're using and weaponizing it. Can't you look and find out in government where you can be more efficient, more basically prudent with the taxpayers' money and quit wasting it, don't you think?

And we all talk about waste, fraud and abuse. That's an easy thing to do. But no one looks at it.

BASH: Will you work with your bipartisan friends on...

MANCHIN: I will work with everybody. I will work with anybody.

BASH: To create this commission...

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MANCHIN: I'm not saying create another commission. But don't you if Kevin McCarthy comes in and says, listen, this is out of control, they sit down and negotiate, and the White House says, OK, what's your recommendations?

Could we put basically something on the floor that we will get to vote on it? Let the people decide and see if we're willing to basically get our house in order.

BASH: Senator, I want to ask you about the revelation from last night that the FBI found six additional...

MANCHIN: Yes.

BASH: ... classified documents at President Biden's residence in Wilmington, Delaware, this time from his time as vice president and his time in the Senate.

Earlier this week, he defended his handling of the situation. He said -- quote -- "There is no 'there' there."

Do you agree?

MANCHIN: Well, I don't know.

But I can tell you one thing. It's unbelievable how this could happen. It's totally irresponsible. And who's at fault? But, with that being said, putting in a political kangaroo court is not going to help.

[09:30:01]

What it should be done is exactly what Merrick Garland did. put the special counsel. Let's wait and see. Some people are taking sides. OK, it was more egregious than what President Trump did and what President Biden did. And maybe that's true. I don't know. Maybe it's not true. Let's find out.

I'm willing to find out from the people that are looking at it, finding all these different documents, and looking at the classifications, and if it's harmful, could have been harmful, or was it harmful, and make determinations. And then the legislature...

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BASH: Should this affect his decision to run for reelection?

MANCHIN: Well, he has to make -- that's a personal decision with him and his family, you know?

BASH: I want to ask about Davos, Switzerland.

MANCHIN: Yes, sure.

BASH: You just returned from the World Economic Forum.

You got an earful from European leaders.

MANCHIN: I did.

BASH: You did?

MANCHIN: Yes.

BASH: They are upset. Just for our audience to understand why, they're upset about some parts of what you called the Inflation Reduction Act that you worked on, came up with, without a lot of people knowing about it.

And, specifically, they think that you're hurting the European Union...

MANCHIN: Yes.

BASH: ... because of some of the incentives, like credits for electric vehicles, that European leaders think are hurting and will hurt European exports.

What were those conversations like?

MANCHIN: Well, they were -- they were -- they were very informative and they were very intense.

My thing was to explain the purpose of the Inflation Reduction Act was to make the United States of America energy-independent. The administration, the Biden administration, has basically touted that as an environmental bill. And there's an awful lot in there that will give us the new technology for the future.

But the other path for 10 years is to make sure that we use all of our fossil fuels that we can and basically extract it in a responsible way and use it in the cleanest fashion with new technology, better and cleaner than anywhere in the world, and making sure that we don't have to depend on other parts of the world, like Iran.

BASH: So what did you say to the European leaders...

MANCHIN: The only thing I told them on that, I said...

BASH: ... who say that you're -- you're -- you're hurting our economy?

MANCHIN: I said, we took two different approaches.

Your countries have taken an approach to where we call the stick and the carrot. You took the stick. You wanted to have cap and trade. You wanted to have basically carbon tax. I never did feel that was productive whatsoever, except all you're doing is punishing the people who are paying higher -- higher prices for products that are made, because carbon is what we have right now, and we haven't transitioned to another technology.

With that, we said, we use the incentive. We're basically -- and now the whole -- the whole world's coming. I have never seen anything like it. The amount of -- the amount of jobs opportunities in America for the next 10 years is unbelievable.

BASH: Speaking of Switzerland, you and your colleague Kyrsten Sinema shared a moment on stage in Switzerland.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: You were high-fiving each other over your support for the Senate filibuster.

As you know, Democratic Congressman Ruben Gallego is thinking about running against her in the United States Senate -- or for the United States Senate. If Senator Sinema runs for reelection, would you support her? You have certainly crossed lines before.

MANCHIN: Let me just tell you about -- so you know Kyrsten Sinema.

She truly is. She stood tall when it was time to stand tall protecting the institution. And, basically, what -- the only thing I have said, I have been voting for 40 years fairly conservative all the way through, and I think people know I'm in the middle and a centrist.

But the bottom line was on Kyrsten, she's going to be formidable candidate. And I would...

BASH: Will you support her?

MANCHIN: I would think that she needs to be supported again, yes, because she brings that independent spirit.

BASH: So you will support her, even if she runs against a Democratic candidate?

MANCHIN: It's not about Democrats and Republicans.

You get the best person that's willing to speak their mind. And she has...

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BASH: And, in your view, that is her?

MANCHIN: Here, let tell you -- let just tell you one thing about -- when we -- when it came down to that, in 2018, 2019, when President Trump was beating on the Republican -- Republican delegation in the Senate about get rid of the filibuster, we don't need it, let's get things done, that's the only check and balance you have on executive branch of government.

BASH: So you're going to support her?

MANCHIN: They changed...

BASH: Yes.

MANCHIN: There was only -- two of us didn't change. We stayed the same.

BASH: OK.

MANCHIN: Wish her well.

BASH: Thank you so much, Senator. I appreciate you coming in.

MANCHIN: Thank you.

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