'This Week' Transcript 2-19-23: Secretary Antony Blinken and Sen. Lindsey Graham
Interview
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Well, number one: there are 30 United States senators in Munich, along with a big House delegation. Senator McConnell and Schumer both came. Virtually unanimous belief that we should be training Ukrainian pilots on the F-16 today so they can get the jets as soon as possible.
The British are training Ukrainian pilots. I believe a decision will be imminent here when we get back to Washington that the administration will start training Ukrainian pilots on the F-16. They need the weapons system.
And let me just stress this -- how can you call this war by Russia a crime against humanity, and that's what the vice president did in Munich -- now, we're talking about Germany. We're talking about the vice president of United States declaring that Russia is involved in crimes against humanity in Germany of all places, you know, echoes of World War II. How can she say that -- and she is correct -- and not give the victim of the crime against humanity the defensive weapons they need to stop the crime?
So we need to do two things quickly, make Russia a state sponsor of terrorism under U.S. law, which would make it harder for China to give weapons to Russia, and we need to start training Ukrainian pilots on the F-16 now.
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Right.
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Yes.
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Yes. Right.
I don't know, you know, you know, a year ago everybody here was in denial. I was preaching as loud as I could, Putin really means it.
Here's the good news. I've never seen NATO so united. The Germans have stepped up to the plate. There's bipartisan support for winning this war in Ukraine, for giving the Ukrainians the weapons they need to defend themselves.
I'm not worried about provoking Putin. I want to beat him. And how do you beat him? You beat him by giving the Ukrainians the military capability to drive the Russians out of Ukraine. You label Putin's Russia as a stage sponsor of terrorism. You create international tribunals so we actually can try Putin and his cronies in the international court, like we did after World War II.
Don't worry about provoking Putin, worry about beating him. And I've never been more optimistic about winning this war in Ukraine than I am right now. I see solidarity across the aisle in America and across the seas.
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Great question. OK. Here's how you win the war. You expel Russia from territory -- in 1994, the Ukrainians gave up the third largest nuclear force on the planet. After the Soviet Union failed, there were like 1,700 nukes in Ukraine. They turned the missiles over to Russia. Russia, the United States and Great Britain said, in exchange for you giving up your nuclear weapons, we will guarantee your territorial integrity, your sovereignty. And the '94 map included Crimea as being part of Ukraine.
So, to not honor that commitment would be tricking the Ukraine, would be rewarding Putin for rewriting agreements involving nuclear weapons. To forgive and forget would be allowing Putin to commit major war crimes on an industrial scale. It would send a signal to China that we're all talk, we're not going to defend Taiwan.
What's at stake here is the rule of law, human decency, and world order. So, here's what I believe. Once you call Russia being engaged in crimes against humanity, you have to have actions consistent with that statement. So I'm looking for this administration to follow up on that statement by designating Russia a state sponsored terrorism under U.S. law. One hundred senators urged the administration to do that. And I'm also urging the administration to start F-16 training now for Ukrainian pilots. Don't worry about provoking Putin, let's make sure we beat Putin in Ukraine because he will not stop if we do not.
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You know, I'm trying to help the administration. Listen, I like Tony Blinken. And the response about the balloon was slow. But the Chinese are lying. It's not a weather balloon. It's a spy balloon. So, yes, we need to deal with that.
But what Secretary Blinken said is big news to me. He believes that the Chinese are on the verge of providing lethal weapons to Putin. Now, if that happens, the world needs to come down hard on China because if you believe, as I do, and the vice president of the United States, Kamala Harris, believes, that Russia is engaged in crimes against humanity in Ukraine, any country that comes to their aid should pay a heavy price. So, that's why we should designate Russia a state sponsor of terrorism because if you do that under U.S. law, and China provides lethal weapons, they will get sanctioned.
And to the Chinese, if you jump on the Putin train now, you're dumber than dirt. It would be like buying a ticket on the Titanic after you saw the movie. Don't do this. The most catastrophic thing that could happen to U.S./China relationship, in my opinion, is for China to stop -- to start -- to give lethal weapons to Putin in this crime against humanity. That would change everything forever.
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Yes.
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No concerns about my testimony. The grand jury analysis that there was no widespread fraud in Georgia, I agree with that. I think the voting by mail had problems, but I found no evidence of widespread fraud. And I had to decide as a senator whether or not to validate the Georgia election. I thought it made sense to call up the Georgia secretary of state, and I did. I asked hard questions, but at the end of the day, I voted to certify the election results in Georgia for the 2020 election.
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Thank you.
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