"Face the Nation" on Feb. 19, 2023
Interview
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Margaret, I don't want to characterize what he said.
I can tell you what I said. I made very clear to him that China sending a surveillance balloon over the United States, in violation of our sovereignty, in violation of international law, was unacceptable, and must never happen again.
We also had an opportunity to talk about Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine and concerns that we have that China is considering providing lethal support to Russia in its efforts in Ukraine. And I was able to share with him, as President Biden has shared with President Xi, the serious consequences that would have for our relationship.
Finally, it was important for me to underscore that we believe having lines of communication, engaging in direct diplomacy is very important.
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Well, it's one of the things that we talked about, the importance of having lines of communication, including military- to-military lines of communication.
It's vital to making sure that there aren't miscommunications, misunderstandings, especially if you've got a crisis or some other situation on your hands.
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It doesn't matter, in the sense that China is responsible for this action.
And, ultimately, as the leader of the country, President Xi is responsible.
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We've been concerned from day one about -- about that possibility.
And, to date, we have seen Chinese companies -- and, of course, in China, there's really no distinction between private companies and the state -- we have seen them provide nonlethal support to Russia for use in Ukraine.
The concern that we have now is, based on information we have that they're considering providing lethal support. And we've made very clear to them that that would cause a serious problem for us and in our relationship.
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Weapons. Weapons.
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Primarily, weapons.
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There's a whole gamut of things that -- that fit in that category, but everything from ammunition to the weapons themselves.
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That's right. We've seen Iran provide...
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There's an increasingly noxious relationship between Russia and Iran.
And it's actually a two-way street. Not only is Iran providing this -- this equipment to Russia, but Russia is also providing military equipment to Iran, including, it looks like, sophisticated fighter planes.
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It's diplospeak for saying it was very important to speak very clearly, very directly about the deep concerns we have, the concerns that we have about this surveillance balloon and the entire program, the concerns we have about the possibility that China will provide lethal material support to Russia in its war effort against Ukraine...
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And it's important that -- again, don't want to characterize what they said, although it's safe to say there was no apology.
We have to make sure that the competition that we're clearly engaged in does not veer into conflict, into a -- into a new Cold War. It's not in our interest. I won't speak to theirs, but it's not in ours.
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Russia's losses have been horrific.
You're right that 90 -- 97 percent or so of their ground forces have been engaged in this war, which is extraordinary. And the losses to date have been horrific. Public figures suggest 200,000 casualties. That is a combination of those killed and those wounded. The destruction of their war machine itself, the tanks, the armored vehicles, the missile launchers, et cetera, has also been extensive.
In terms of airpower, they tried some of this early on. Ukraine's air defenses were actually successful in shooting down a lot of Russian aircraft. So they backed off of using aircraft. That doesn't mean that they won't try to do that going forward. But, at least to date, Ukraine has had air defenses that have allowed it to pose such a threat to Russian aircraft that they haven't really been flying.
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We will, as always, look at every legal possibility when it comes to going after the atrocities that Russia is committing in Ukraine.
The determination that -- that we made of crimes against humanity that the vice president announced today is, unfortunately, starkly clear. And we've seen that almost from day one.
This practice that, as a parent, is almost impossible to fathom of literally seizing Ukrainian children, sending them to Russia, sending them to centers -- there are about 43 of them that we found -- there was a project undertaken by Yale University, with our support, that has documented this -- to 43 centers in Russia and some in Ukrainian territory that Russia now holds.
Some of these places are closer to Alaska than they are to Ukraine. Separating them from their families and then having them adopted by Russians, this is, in and of itself, horrific. It also speaks to the fact that President Putin has been trying from day one to erase Ukraine's identity, to erase its future. That's what's going on, and that too is a crime against humanity.
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We will look at every possible determination, but we're going to follow the facts, and we're going to follow the law. These are very serious determinations, and we will engage in them very seriously.
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Good to be with you. Thanks, Margaret.
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