State of the Union: Interview With Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX)

Interview

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I think it should be incremental, Jake.

I think, first, they have to win the counteroffensive, secondly, have a cease-fire, and then negotiate a peace settlement. We cannot admit Ukraine into NATO immediately. That would put us at war with Russia under Article 5 of the United Nations. So I think what the conversation is going to be about is, what security agreements can be put in place with Ukraine as a predicate to perhaps NATO -- ascension of Ukraine into NATO? I think it's way too premature to be talking about that.

But I do think just to talk about it does provide deterrence against Russia. But we have to be careful in the way we do this. Now, remember, back in the Budapest agreement, they gave up all their nuclear weapons to Russia, and then we threw them under the bus with that agreement.

If we do another security agreement with NATO -- with Ukraine -- I'm sorry -- it has to be one that's solid that all of NATO is behind as a security agreement. The issue of ascension into NATO is a whole different issue.

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Correct.

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Yes, but it would have to be done, again, incrementally.

I think a security agreement with Ukraine to lay the predicate down the road, they would have to come up to certain standards within NATO qualifications to be admitted.

But I think, if anything, Jake, they have demonstrated a will to fight, a will for freedom and democracy against tyranny and oppression. And I think they have earned it. But we have to put it on the right path forward, not an immediate ascension into NATO.

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Well, you're right. Geneva Convention, there are signatories to that convention who do not agree with these munitions. We are not a signatory to the Geneva Convention on cluster munitions.

Neither is Ukraine. And, by the way, Russia is dropping with impunity cluster bombs in Ukraine, in the country of Ukraine, right now. All the Ukrainians and Zelenskyy are asking for is to give them the same weapons the Russians have to use in their own country against Russians who are in their own country.

They're -- they do not want these to be used in Russia. They want these as self-defense to use against Russians in their own country of Ukraine. I don't see anything wrong with that, because, quite honestly, Jake, as you look at the counteroffensive, it's been slowed tremendously because this administration has been so slow to get the weapons in.

These weapons would be a game-changer. They are highly effective, and particularly hitting flanks of troops inside of Ukraine. They would be a game-changer in the counteroffensive. And I'm really pleased the administration has finally agreed to do this.

But, lastly, ATACMS, my committee,we voted bipartisan to release those ATACMS, longer-range artillery, that can hit the Iranian drones in Crimea. And also the F-16s need to get in country as soon as possible to deliver the Storm Shadows that the U.K. has put in there as well.

But it'll take a while to train the pilots. But we got to move all this quickly and stop spending so much time.

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I think, just to get the meetings, they made a lot of concessions on sanctions and export controls.

I would like this to be -- it is a great power competition. I think she was willing to say we're not in a conflict or in a competition. This is just -- we're just trading partners. I think that's a little bit devoid of reality.

I think it's good to have diplomacy. I think it's good to have discussions moving forward. But what has China done? Their response is export controls on rare earth minerals. As a result of this meeting, they're going to cut exports of rare earth minerals to the United States in what would be considered a trade action or a trade embargo.

And this highlights the bigger, great power competition we have with China, first semiconductors that I took on with the CHIPS Act. Now we got the rare earth minerals. Globally, China controls about 80, 85 percent of those critical minerals. We have to compete with them in every continent, including Africa, South America, Indo-Pacific.

And we're not doing adequately so far.

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No, it's devoid of reality.

Jake, it's a little bit eerie that a president of the United States would have so -- be so disillusioned about what's happening on the ground in Afghanistan, the idea that al Qaeda is gone. His own secretary of defense and Joint Chiefs of Staff, Milley, have said al Qaeda is on the rise in Afghanistan. He's saying they're gone. He's saying the Taliban are helping us.

What happened right after he withdrew? Zawahiri was harbored by the Haqqani Network, which is al Qaeda, essentially. So, you got Haqqani and the Taliban harboring Zawahiri, al Qaeda, bin Laden's number two guy, in Afghanistan right after the fall. And now he's saying, I was right. The Taliban is helping us and al Qaeda is gone.

I just don't really understand it. It's a bit bizarre to me that a president would be so devoid of his own foreign policy. And he just really wants to sweep Afghanistan under the rug. That report was very damaging, found that we should not have abandoned Bagram, where we had over $7 billion of taxpayer weapons left behind that now, by the way, the Taliban are selling to our adversaries like Iran and the Palestinians against Israel.

This is a huge foreign policy blunder.

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Well, I think we have to be careful in South America about regime change. We have had a history of that.

I support the people of Cuba. I support them. If they want an uprising against their leadership, we should support them in that effort. I will be with them tomorrow. They're very passionate about their country. They want their country back. They want freedom and democracy in Cuba.

And what is happening in Cuba right now? China is in Cuba. We have the latest reports now that the Chinese are setting up a spy station in Cuba, the likes of which we haven't seen since the Cuban Missile Crisis. And where am I sitting? SOUTHCOM in Miami, CENTCOM, which is Central Command. That's all the Middle East.

SOUTHCOM is Central and South America, our military. JIATF is our intelligence task force in Key West.

All these facilities, Jake, 90 miles away from that tiny island, from where I sit right here in Miami, 90 miles that can intercept, through Huawei and ZTE and a spy station, our intelligence communications, that is a clear and present danger and a threat to the security of the United States just 90 miles off the coast here.

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Thank you, Jake. Thanks for having me.

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