Fox News The O'Reilly Factor - Transcript

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SHOW: THE O'REILLY FACTOR (20:00)

HEADLINE: Talking Points
Rumfeld under Fire

GUESTS: Ben Nelson, John Cornyn

BYLINE: John Kasich

BODY:
KASICH: Joining us from the capitol is Senator John Cornyn, a Republican from Texas, and from Washington, Senator Ben Nelson, a Democrat from Nebraska. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. And they were at the hearing today.

Senator Nelson, let's start with you. How did Secretary Rumsfeld do today?

SEN. BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: Well, I thought the fact that he started off with a deep and sincere apology was a very good starting point. I think he also indicated that he regretted that Congress had not been informed of the availability of these pictures prior to our seeing them on camera. So I think he started off very good.

I-we've got a problem, though, when candor seems to be progressive. You know, and it just keeps coming out. I think that's his challenge is to overcome that.

KASICH: Senator Cornyn, is he going to get to keep his job?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN ®, TEXAS: Well, I think from what we heard today he should. The difficulties that Senator Nelson pointed out of having an ongoing criminal investigation, which the Department of Defense is very forthcoming about three days after the allegations in January, they issued a press release from Central Command talking about this ongoing investigation.

But Senator-but Secretary Rumsfeld had the very difficult challenge of trying to keep Congress advised. At the same time, trying to protect the integrity of this investigation so that those who were truly at fault could be brought to justice.

KASICH: Yes, Senator Nelson, listen, it's interesting to me. Two press conferences. I believe one in January, one in March. In both cases, there was a report of this investigation, criminal defense investigation. Is Congress, frankly, just not reading the news? Is this a case where you, frankly, should have known about this?

NELSON: Well, I think you get-there's a difference between judicial notice and having the secretary call the chairman of the Armed Services Committee and the ranking member and saying this one's radioactive. I think there is a difference. As a matter of fact...

KASICH: Wait a minute...

NELSON: Radioactive is his word.

KASICH: Yes. Well, I understand that...

NELSON: He used that today.

KASICH: ...but this was a-and look, I think it could have been better. I served in the Congress myself and understand what you're all saying. However, this was not like it was just some little announcement. This was-these people were questioned on-at a press conference by another cable network as late as March.

NELSON: But even then, Secretary Rumsfeld said that at that point in time that he didn't have the kind of information that he ultimately received. So a press conference is one thing. Knowledge of a radioactive issue is another.

KASICH: Yes.

NELSON: And I think that's where members of Congress are saying Mr. Secretary, we really hope you'll do better. Surprise is an awful thing to the president and to members of Congress.

NELSON: Senator Cornyn, it's interesting. It seems to me as though the secretary went up on the Hill and probably did quell a lot of the critics. There's a poll out today saying that about 70 percent of the people want him to stay, but what about this notion that we need to have an independent commission that's going to-or independent body take a look at this? That Secretary Rumsfeld has talked about? How's that going to play up there?

CORNYN: I just don't think we need another independent commission that in this political year will just not get us additional information but maybe will shed more heat than light on the issue.

I think Congress is fully capable of getting to the bottom of this. And I think we went a long way to doing that today. I think what Senator Nelson's concerned about, and I guess we all are-none of us like to be surprised, and then asked, you know, where were we when this happened, but it's a difference, I guess, between getting notice three days after the incident was reported and the investigation began and then seeing this picture leaked from a confidential criminal justice investigation.

What I want to make sure we do-and I'm sure what Senator Nelson does and others-is make sure that we hold the people responsible who were at fault, not just spread the blame too broadly.

KASICH: All right.

NELSON: I would definitely agree with our military.

KASICH: Senator Nelson, let me ask you this, because I think you have a proposal to tear this prison down.

NELSON: I do.

KASICH: Obviously, what-you know, in the year of 24 hour cable news and you folks on the Senate on top of this thing, how are we going to guarantee that this doesn't-you know that certain people get blamed and other people get away? What are you going to do to make sure that we punish those people who were the-who victimized these Iraqis?

NELSON: We have to have a full investigation to make sure that this wasn't just the aberrant behavior of a few. The word few was used about five or six times today by those testifying. It may have been a few, but we don't know whether or not there was some sort of intervention in the chain of command with the military intelligence or other intelligence of private contractors coming in and taking over.

There's a report out that General Kapinski, a two-star reserve officer, had control over the prison, was not even permitted entrance into part of the prison. So we've got to get to the bottom of it.

CORNYN: We've got to get at the bottom of it.

NELSON: We don't want to prosecute privates and sergeants and ignore the fact that others may have been involved.

KASICH: All right, Senator Cornyn, it's clear we are going to be aggressive in this approach. Everybody in Washington, everybody in America is apologizing, but yet, there are many people in the Arab country and our French friends in France and in Germany that say you're all a bunch of liars. What's it going to take to convince people that, in fact, we're serious and they are not using this to try to pummel America again?

CORNYN: Well, I think the process we're engaged in today, as painful as it is, to call the leaders of our Defense Department to the highest echelons of the American government before open hearings of Congress to answer these hard questions. I think this is part of how we demonstrate...

KASICH: Part of the process.

CORNYN: ...what the process is about and how we hold people accountable.

KASICH: We got to leave it there, guys. Thanks.