Hearing of the Subcommittee on Human Resources of the House Ways and Means Committee - Supplemental Security Income

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME PROGRAM

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE WALLY HERGER (R-CA )

WITNESSES:

ROBERT E. ROBERTSON, DIRECTOR, EDUCATION. WORKFORCE AND INCOME SECURITY ISSUES, U.S. GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE;

MARTY FORD, CO-CHAIR, SOCIAL SECURITY TASK FORCE, CONSORTIUM FOR CITIZENS WITH DISABILITIES;

PATRICK O'CARROLL, ACTING INSPECTOR GENERAL, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION; MARTHA MARSHALL, PRESIDENT-ELECT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF DISABILITY EXAMINERS;

DAVID PODOFF, PH.D., MEMBER, SOCIAL SECURITY ADVISORY BOARD

LOCATION: B-318 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

TIME: 10:00 A.M.

BODY:
REP. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN (D-MA): Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I join you in welcoming our panel here today, this is a very important subject and I share your concern about the integrity of any program that is created by Congress and the important role that we play and this committee plays in oversight to make sure that the program is working the way Congress intended and that the monies are properly being dispersed.

Seven million elderly and disabled Americans depend upon the social-the SSI benefits, and as Social Security Barnhart mentioned just a few weeks ago, the SSI recipients are the poorest of the poor. So I think we have a dual responsibility, Mr. Chairman, first to make sure that this program is providing the needed help to this very, very vulnerable population. And the second to make sure of the integrity of the program, and I hope that we will carry out both of those responsibilities.

We must also recognize that the effort to improve the SSI program also depends upon the Social Security Administration having adequate resources, and this committee has been on record historically about the concerns on the budget support for the Social Security Administration, and once again I point out that we can't expect them to perform miracles unless we're prepared also to support that with the adequate resource.

Since 1993 Congress has passed no less than 10 bills that included provisions designed to curb fraud and abuse and to improve the management of the SSI program. When Mrs. Johnson was chair of this subcommittee I joined her in 1999 to pass the Foster Care Independence Act, which generally sought to help children aging out of our foster care system, but it also contained changes in the SSI provisions. The law provided new authorities to detect and collect SSI overpayments that prevented individuals from dispensing, disposing of resources to gain eligibility, and it included new penalties for deliberate fraud.

Mr. Chairman I remain willing to consider other changes to improve the integrity and administration of the SSI program, but I would also urge this committee to look at whether the program is currently providing the necessary help for this most vulnerable population. I point out, Mr. Chairman, that SSI has not been increased for 32 years which means that in fact we've seen a 75 percent reduction in the real value of the SSI payments. And that should be of concern to this committee.

The income exclusion provides for a very small reward for fast work by allowing twenty dollars of Social Security benefits to be added to SSI benefit without any penalty. Second exclusion allows the first $65 in monthly earnings be disregarded from SSI eligibility. If these income disregards had simply kept pace with inflation over the last three decades, the general exclusion would be worth $85 a month rather than $20, and the earning exclusion would be worth $280 a month rather than $65. Now that may seem like large amounts of money, maybe it doesn't seem like large amounts of money.

Today on the floor of Congress we will be voting on the bill to increase the income for eligibility of the child credit from $110,000 to $250,000. Mr. Chairman if we have time to consider that legislation don't we have time to provide a small increase in the health of the poorest of the poor?

Serving on this committee, we take on the responsibility to advocate on behalf of those who aren't very effective in having their voices heard here in Congress. And I would hope that we would find time to provide additional relief to this very vulnerable population. I also urge this committee to consider extending SSI assistance to elderly and disabled refugees, all of whom have fled political and religious persecution in their home countries. Two months ago I joined a bipartisan group of members on this committee in introducing legislation to provide a two year extension for these refugees who often have no other source of income. Given that the administration also has called for extending the refugee SSI benefits, I hope we can address this issue quickly.

Without congressional action up to 10,000 refugees could lose assistance by the end of this year, and thousands more in the years to come. So Mr. Chairman reducing fraud is a very important responsibility, rewarding work is an important goal of this committee, helping refugees, and I hope that we can move on all three of these fronts and I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses and working with the chairman and the members of this committee to bring out legislation that can improve the effectiveness of the SSI program.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
REP. CARDIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I also want to thank all of our witnesses today. I join the chairman in concern on the residency issue. I think that's one area that we should be able to figure out a strategy to make sure that we are not paying benefits to those who are not eligible for benefits. Frankly, Mr. Chairman, I was figuring a way whether we couldn't recycle that money into some of the provisions of H.R. 2187 so that we could put the money back into the program to help the people who really need it.

Mrs. Ford, I very appreciate you mentioning H.R. 2187 because I do think it's somewhat a mischaracterization to suggest that someone who is on SSI who, one month, might be receiving $75 or $80 in babysitting, which is an overpayment, if they get their full SSI benefits. I pointed out in my opening statement, we haven't adjusted the offsets, income offsets for 32 years. And to consider that a fraud or an overpayment for someone who gets under an income one month of $30 or $40, all of a sudden, because that's not reported, we have an overpayment.

And it seems to me that, if we were to adjust these dollar amounts, it would encourage people to seek gainful income, gainful employment without being penalized if we just modernize the-brought up to date the value of the offsets and therefore, with the GAO report showing less overpayment or fraud within the system, if we would just allow these individuals to be able to have some reward for going out and trying to supplement their income.

MS. FORD: I agree with you. I think that it's really important to make the distinction that overpayments in SSI are the normal course of business because of the way the system is established and there are quite a number of work incentives built into the program. The $1 for $2 offset, when you earn $2 and you lose $1 of benefit means that the SSI beneficiary will always be better off working than not working and then when you look at Section 1619(a and b), that allows the individual to continue to keep their healthcare coverage and also work beyond the substantial gainful activity level, there are real incentives in SSI to work and a lot of people do try that. But they should not be perceived as fraudulent in any way simply because they have these regularly occurring overpayments.

We have raised the issue with Social Security Administration and the Congress a number of times, that there is not a good system right now within SSA to handle earnings report by beneficiaries. And so the overpayments then become larger and when someone is sent with a very large overpayment and a letter that tells you owe us thousands of dollars and you have to pay, the desire to attempt to work again is gone for many, many people.

REP. CARDIN: And I want to make it clear, I don't disagree with the $2 earnings, $1 offset. I disagree with the amount of money that is the floor before that kicks in and I agree, it does encourage people to go out and earn, although I must tell you the philosophy in this Congress is that a 50 percent tax bracket would be oppressive and confiscatory for everyone except the poorest of our poor. So I think we do exercise sometimes the dual standards as to what the incentives to work are all about.

Dr. Podoff, I appreciate your comments on the definition of disability and I don't disagree with you that we should be looking at a definition of disability that encourages work and the program itself. My concern is that SSA plays a critical role in trying to get people to work and provide financial support and services and if we change the definition of disability, I hope that you're not implying that the support services to encourage people to work would depend upon meeting a definition that may be more difficult, as you are explaining it.

MR. PODOFF: Not at all, sir. I think we're basically exploring the issues.

We haven't on the board and anywhere else really come to any conclusion on how you change this. As we said, we had a conference on this just last month to look at these issues. On the contrary, I think the view would be that you really want to get the support services really earlier on and that the way to keep people in the workforce is to identify the needs of folks early on and rather than talk about getting people back to the workforce, you want to try to keep them in the workforce. And one of the ways you might do this is figure out that they need some assistance with healthcare costs or certain special provisions.

So when we're talking about redefining the definition of disability, we are not at all talking about trying to make it harder for people to get on the rolls. What we're trying to do is make is easier for people to stay in the workforce.

REP. CARDIN: I appreciate that clarification. Glad I asked the question because it was important to clarify that point. I think we all want to make it easier for people with disabilities to be able to go out and become employed. But then we know that they need help and we don't want to have disincentives in the system itself.

Once again, Mr. Chairman, I thank all of our witnesses for their testimony.