MSNBC Hardball Transcript

MSNBC July 7, 2004 Wednesday

SHOW: HARDBALL

HEADLINE: HARDBALL For July 7, 2004

BYLINE: Chris Matthews; David Shuster

GUESTS: Jennifer Granholm; Trent Lott; Ralph Nader; Douglas Brinkley; Jerry Brown

HIGHLIGHT:
The new Democratic presidential team of Kerry and Edwards rolled out their joint campaign today in Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.

BODY:
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Surrounded by their wives and children in the heart of the battleground state of Pennsylvania, John Kerry and John Edwards made their first joint campaign appearance this morning. Pretty pictures. But did Kerry pick his running mate for his political skills and drive or? We'll talk about the glamour factor with Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm. Plus: John Kerry took Ralph Nader's advice and picked Edwards as his running mate. Tonight we'll ask Nader himself if he'll give the Democratic Party its dream by ending the nightmare of a narrow loss in a three-way race and get out of the race.

Let's play HARDBALL.

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Jennifer Granholm is the governor of Michigan, a battleground state in this election. Governor, what do you make of that report you just saw there about glamour and the possibility that one of the factors in the selection of John Edwards was what he looked like?

GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: Well, you know what I think is even better is what the policies of this administration will look like. I think, you know, he's-there's no doubt about it, he's a good-looking guy. But in the end, I think people are going to be much more moved by the fact that he is somebody who will advocate for average citizens, and I think that's what's going to move people.

MATTHEWS: What do you think about that potential match-up? You've been in debates, Governor. Imagine-I can't wait myself, as a political junkie. I want to be there, October, tonight. I want to watch these two guys, this young guy against this older guy, Dick Cheney against this young guy, the new kid on the block, John Edwards, the trial lawyer against the Mighty Mouse of this administration, the guy who seems to have so much power, Dick Cheney. What do you make of that, as a political person? Describe that night to me.

GRANHOLM: Oh, it's a great contrast. We're always looking for contrast. You can't get a better contrast than this. He's a fresh face. He is not a career politician. That is true. And I think that works to his benefit. He comes and he speaks from the heart. Now, Cheney, of course, has a reputation of being a bit closed, a bit dry. I think that Edwards is totally different than that-from that. Cheney's experience in being the head of a major corporation, Halliburton, and Edwards's experience of fighting against major corporations on behalf of average citizens-what better political theater can you possibly get?

MATTHEWS: Well, the Republicans seem to have a list now. I want you to defend each one of these points because you agreed to come on the show tonight, and thank you for that.

GRANHOLM: Oh, great![tilde ]

MATTHEWS: Three points they're knocking this kid for, this young guy. He's 51. He's not a kid, obviously. No. 1, he's a trial lawyer. You're a lawyer. You have a Harvard law degree, I believe. What's that mean politically? You hit a guy for being a trial lawyer. Does that work?

GRANHOLM: I think it works not at all. I think people see him as an advocate. In fact, I saw a poll this morning, an overnight poll where people said, Is it more likely or less likely that you would vote for him, knowing he had that background? To 67 percent, it was-it was a favorable attribute. So I just don't see that as being an issue at all. I think...

MATTHEWS: What about people...

GRANHOLM: I think it's a good issue for him.

MATTHEWS: Well, what about the problem you have in states like Pennsylvania, where I'm from, where you have a hard time keeping doctors out there in small towns as specialists because they have to pay so much in malpractice because of these big suits against doctors, who make a mistake, but their whole career is on the line, if they make one?

GRANHOLM: Yes, well, Edwards's history, his whole history has been against insurance companies and major corporations. And I think Kerry has got a plan to be able to weed out the frivolous lawsuits and to allow individuals to seek retribution if they have been harmed. It's a balanced approach. And I think people appreciate that. They don't want to be shut out from a court system, which is a foundation of democracy.

MATTHEWS: Yes, but don't Democrats take a ton of money from that foundation of democracy? Aren't trial lawyers the most where reliable Democratic money crowd?

GRANHOLM: I think trial lawyers do support Democrats.

MATTHEWS: Why?

GRANHOLM: Some of them support Republicans, as well. Some...

MATTHEWS: Oh, come on!

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: You know, I think that it is completely thrown up in the air in this election, and I'll tell you why, because I think that all of the boundaries have been broken down. Historically, one would have said that doctors support Republicans and not Democrats, but that's just not true in this election. People feel like our health care system has been potentially gutted, Medicaid and Medicare potentially gutted. None of the old rules apply anymore. I think what really applies is people want somebody who's going to stand up for middle class, for citizens in the United States, and restore our respect in the world.

MATTHEWS: You've got a big state, Michigan. Can you give me the name of a Republican trial lawyer?

GRANHOLM: Well, I don't ask them their party affiliation...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You'll have to look a while.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Governor, about this issue of being a lightweight. Do you believe that John Edwards is the best qualified Democratic candidate possible for VP this year, the best qualified, up against Dick Gephardt, up against Bob Graham, up against Eddie Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania, former mayor of Philly, against you-well, you can't run because you're formerly a Canadian, I guess. But what-do you really think he's No. 1 on qualifications?

GRANHOLM: He is the perfect-the perfect match for this team, and I'll-because, one, he's optimistic and he conveys that well. Two, he hasn't been poisoned by the environment in Washington. He brings that fresh perspective. And he is somebody who speaks from the heart.

So I think, you know, if it's all about the number of years that you've been in Washington, then George Bush never would have been elected president, nor would have Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan. That's not what the point is. Is he smart? You bet he is. Can he speak to people? Yes, he can. Will he know the ropes? I love to see him in this debate with Cheney. So I think the combination of attributes that he brings is perfect for this ticket.

I can tell you that Democrats in Michigan-and we are a battleground state-they have been doing high fives and towel snaps all over the place.

MATTHEWS: I know. That's politics. Governor, let's check your analysis now. You said that John Edwards didn't have much poison in him because he hasn't been in Washington that long, not a full Senate term, even, of six years. If that's the standard, how little time you've served in Washington shows how clean you are of Washington corruption, then John Kerry, after 20 years, your party nominee for president, is really poisoned by now because he's been here 20 years.

GRANHOLM: Well, look at where the poisoning has come from. If you ask any member of the Senate or of Congress-and Chris, you've been around a long time-they will tell you that it has never been as acrimonious as it is today. So you need to have somebody who comes from the outside, as well as somebody who remembers what it was like when more civility reigned. Obviously, John Kerry has got the experience. He's got the longevity. He's got the foreign policy experience. Combine that, of course, with John Edwards's freshness, and it is a perfect team. That's why they're calling it a great American team for a new America.

MATTHEWS: That's why you made law degree. Let me ask you this question here. What do you-we have Ralph Nader coming on this show, Governor, later. He had a big impact in your state, didn't quite cause a spoiling there last time, but he could have a big impact, maybe almost 100,000 votes last time. Do you think he should get out of the race or stay in the race for president as an independent party candidate?

GRANHOLM: I wish, frankly, with all my heart that he would get out. Everything that he has fought for, all of the battles that he has waged when he was a trial lawyer, everything that he has stood for is centering and is potentially going to be lost in this election. I think that he would do a world of good by-now that Edwards, having been chosen, by deciding to step out.

MATTHEWS: I'll deliver your note to him the minute he comes on. Thank you very much, Governor.

GRANHOLM: I'm sure it'll have a lot of impact!

MATTHEWS: Well, it might have an impact. You never know. He does like Edwards. Jennifer Granholm, governor of Michigan, thank you for joining us.

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