CNN The Situation Room

CNN The Situation Room

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We want to talk a little bit more now about one of our top stories.

Would Iraqi troops be better off by now if they were better armed and better equipped by the United States?

That's precisely what the prime minister of Iraq, Nouri al- Maliki, is suggesting.

So that certainly has the White House on the defensive right now, just as President Bush is sending more American troops to Iraq, a plan that my next guest opposes.

Joe Biden is the Democratic senator and a likely presidential candidate.

He's also the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for coming in.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Happy to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's talk about this Nouri al-Maliki statement -- very harsh, blaming, in effect, the United States for the lack of progress in dealing with the security situation in his own country -- this after almost four years of U.S. involvement in blood and treasure.

What do you make of this?

BIDEN: What I make of it is, he strongly opposes the president's plan to escalate the war in his own country in Baghdad.

Yet, we were told by the secretary of state, coming up, testifying before us in my committee, just last week, which you covered, Wolf, saying that, no, no, the Maliki government is there, and the Iraqi forces are going to be there to help us do this, when, in fact, it's clear -- it's clear -- that there is overwhelming opposition to the president's plan by the very people we're going to rely on, as we send our soldiers door to door in a city of six million people -- more than six million people -- in the midst a civil war.

BLITZER: I think what it shows is, he wants a free hand to do what he wants to do...

BIDEN: Exactly right.

BLITZER: ... and doesn't want the burden of having to deal nicely, if you will, with a lot of Sunnis in Iraq.

BIDEN: That's exactly right.

BLITZER: He's a Shiite leader. He wants equipment. He wants money from the United States, but he doesn't want to be dictated by the United States.

BIDEN: Exactly right.

But think what that says, Wolf. It reinforces the point that this is a sectarian war, and it reinforces the point that it is folly for the president to send 17,500 Americans into a country -- into city of over six million people, on the promise that he's going to get support from Iraqi forces.

Our military guys and the secretary acknowledges that, if the Iraqis do not help in this mission, and -- quote -- as she said, "lead" the mission, then there's no possibility of succeeding. So, what are we going to do? Send these young men and women into a meat grinder here?

What we should be doing is the opposite. We should be letting Maliki know that he's not going to get our help, if he doesn't straighten out and have a political solution here. And that is why the Iraqi Study Group, why Joe Biden, why Les Gelb, why everyone across the board, including the president's own generals, have said: Mr. President, we should be telling them we're going to be ramping down, not ramping up, because he cannot count on us to, in fact, be the fodder for his civil war. He has to make some political compromises.

BLITZER: The -- last week, you said something very direct.

You said that the only way the president is going to budge and change his position is if enough Republicans, members of his own party, stand up and express their strong opinion. Well, a lot of Republicans are doing exactly that. But he's not budging.

Did you miscalculate in that...

BIDEN: No.

BLITZER: ... in that thinking?

BIDEN: No. I think we just started. We just started.

I know that the Republican leadership is surprised that the Biden-Hagel resolution was able to get two leading Republicans to sign onto it, and with -- along with Senator Levin, who drafted it with us, number one.

Number two, I think they're going to be surprised when we vote it out of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And evidence of the fact that they are worried about it, the word right now is -- and I don't know this for a fact -- is, the Republican leadership is talking about filibustering the ability to vote on this.

BLITZER: That's what the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, told me on Sunday.

BIDEN: Right.

BLITZER: This is an important statement.

BIDEN: Right.

BLITZER: And you need 60 votes. Will you have 60 votes to break that filibuster?

BIDEN: I -- the answer is, I don't know whether we will have 60 votes to break it.

But think of what the statement says, Wolf -- a sitting president, with the opposition of every major political -- every major -- almost every major military leader, leaders in his own party, two former Republican secretaries of state, former secretaries of defense, all of them telling him: Mr. President, don't do what you're about to do.

And, then, on top of that, you come along, and you have a bipartisan resolution saying, don't do it, Mr. President, and there's -- they have got to filibuster it to stop it?

BLITZER: What is wrong with Russ Feingold's recommendation; you simply use the power of the purse, which the Constitution gives the legislative branch of the U.S. government...

BIDEN: Nothing.

BLITZER: ... to stop funding this war?

BIDEN: Nothing wrong with it.

The question is, can that be done quickly? And the answer is probably not. We have a constitutional right to do that. I have drafted a resolution, which I will be introducing later, a law that says: Look, you have no authority to go to war in Iran, Mr. President, like you seem to be intimating you do, nor into Syria.

In addition to that, we have the power to -- and I'm working on a resolution that will say, the authorization for use of force that we gave you three-and-a-half years ago is no longer valid. There's a new authorization to use, and here are the limitations on your use.

There are constitutional ways to do...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What about Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, Barack Obama? They want a cap on how many troops could be serving in Iraq. Do you think that's a good idea?

BIDEN: In principle, it's a good idea, but, in practice, it may be difficult. Let me explain what I mean by that, Wolf.

If you talk to the Pentagon, you talk to people who know how the military works, we have thousands of troops outside of Iraq, over the horizon, in case our troops get in trouble. What happens if there is a real problem? Does that limit the president being able to surge troops in to rescue American troops, number one?

Number two, the way this works, Wolf, is that there is always a movement, in terms of when we ramped up troops. That is, you extend troops who are there, while new troops are coming in. There is almost always an overlap. Then, the number comes down. It gets pretty dicey figuring out how to micromanage that.

I think the easier way to do this -- will be politically harder -- is to reauthorize and, with significant limitation, on what authority the president has in Iraq, period, period -- in other words, a new authorization...

BLITZER: All right.

BIDEN: ... for the use of force.

BLITZER: I'm going to let you go.

BIDEN: But that's down the road.

BLITZER: I'm going to let you go -- one final political question.

Are you going to be at our presidential debate in New Hampshire in early April? CNN and WMUR TV, "The New Hampshire Union Leader," we're co-sponsoring a Democratic and a Republican debate among presidential prospects.

Do you plan on attending?

BIDEN: That's my intention. I don't know what's going to be going on in the Senate that day. And let me -- the only thing that would keep me away would be something like a debate on Iraq in the midst of a debate up there.

But it's my intention to participate in as many of these debates as I can, Wolf. And I think particularly one sponsored by, you know, two major institutions would be a very, very good thing to do.

BLITZER: Three -- actually, three, CNN, "The New Hampshire..."

BIDEN: Three. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

BLITZER: ... "Union Leader," and WMUR TV in Manchester.

BIDEN: Yes. No...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You're going to make the formal announcement when?

BIDEN: Well, I'm going to set up a committee, hopefully, by the end of this month. We're just doing the mechanics of it.

And -- but, in terms of the sort of fly-around, where you have large crowds, and announce, and all that, I probably won't do that until a little bit later. But I will be making it clear. I am running and setting up a Biden for president committee, not exploratory, flat Biden for president, and trying to raise the funds to be able to compete, which I think I can do.

BLITZER: Senator, thanks very much for coming into THE SITUATION ROOM.

BIDEN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Joe Biden joining us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/18/sitroom.01.html