CNN Pula Zahn Now-Transcript

Interview

CNN Pula Zahn Now-Transcript

ZAHN: And welcome back.

Tonight, we're devoting the hour to faith, values and politics.

And we're talking some of the most important moral issues of our time with Democratic presidential candidates. My guests this hour are four candidates who just happen to be Roman Catholic, Senator Chris Dodd, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Governor Bill Richardson, and, up first, Senator Joe Biden of Delaware.

Welcome to the Catholic hour, Senator.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it's nice to be here, Paula.

ZAHN: Unfortunately, I can't hear the Senator.

I hope you will be...

BIDEN: Can you hear me?

ZAHN: ... at some point this evening.

I'm going to attempt to ask you my first question, Senator, and, hopefully, be able to hear you.

BIDEN: All right.

ZAHN: You had an enormous tragedy strike your life when you lost your first wife and your daughter in a tragic accident.

Did you blame God for your loss?

BIDEN: Well, I have to admit to you, initially, I did.

See, I have been raised -- born and raised a Catholic. It's part of my culture, as well as my religious faith. And I found I was -- I was really angry. And, for about eight or nine months, I couldn't understand how that could happen.

But my mom has an expression. Out of everything terrible, something good will happen, if you look hard enough for it, and God sends no cross that you cannot bear.

And it took a while, but, with a lot of help and rejuvenation of my faith, I was able to deal with it. And a lot of other people have dealt with things worse than I have.

ZAHN: So, your faith was never tested so badly that you gave up on God? It was tested. You were angry.

BIDEN: Well, I temporarily did. I was angry. I came out, and I can remember -- I wish I could say I was a better man, but I remember looking up at the Capitol dome and saying, God, why did you -- you know, I was really, really angry.

And it's one of the only -- it's the only public conversation I have ever had with God. And I'm not proud of it. But -- but I was angry.

ZAHN: You say it's the only public conversation you have ever had with God.

I know some candidates are more open about -- others about talking about their prayer and -- and how they communicate with God.

Do you pray every day?

BIDEN: Well, I do. I actually say the rosary every day.

But, you know, the thing is, I was raised in a tradition, eight years with the nuns, four years with the priests. We learned a lot about the Pharisees. And we -- we worried about those people who -- we were taught about the people who only talk to God, and they're the only ones that know God, and the ones who talk about talking to God.

It's always been as part of my sort of Irish Catholic culture that -- that it was not something that you talked about. It's something you did. Everything was judged by your deeds. What did you do? Your deeds would speak. As Lincoln said, to paraphrase him, you know, don't -- don't judge my religion by my words. Judge whether I have religion by my deeds.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the concept of forgiveness, which is key in your religion.

BIDEN: Yes.

ZAHN: When it comes to the 9/11 hijackers, will you ever be capable of forgiving them for what they did?

BIDEN: You know, I wish I were a better Catholic. The answer to -- the God's honest truth is, I have not been able to come to that conclusion yet.

I have forgiven things that have happened to me, but it's -- in a sense, it's harder to forgive these major, major, major impositions of brutality on humanity. And I find it much more difficult. It's easier to forgive when you're hurt. I imagine it's your experience as well. Hard to forgive when you hurt your child -- your child is hurt.

So, I find it counterintuitive, but I have difficulty on forgiving that.

ZAHN: Do you think God takes sides, let's say, for example...

BIDEN: No.

ZAHN: ... in this war in Iraq and in this war on terror?

BIDEN: No, I -- I don't think take -- I don't think God takes sides.

But I do think there is -- it's not moral relativism. I think there's good and there's bad. There's evil and there's not. Those engaging in the brutal elimination of women and children, suicide bombers, I think God -- I think there's a royal -- I think there's a place in hell for them.

But those who believe that the Sharia should be the law of the land, that -- that is, the Koran, you know, their religion, they think God is on their side.

Every country -- let's think how many people have died in the name of God, based on the wars, the religious wars, we have had. So, I think -- I think we should pray not that God is on our side, but we're on God's side.

ZAHN: We just heard the co-host of this forum earlier this evening saying that people of faith should never be in the pocket of anybody's political party, that they should be perceived as the ultimate swing vote.

But, historically, a lot of those votes have gone to Republican candidates. Why has that happened?

BIDEN: Well, the truth of the matter is, it hasn't gone in my faith. Mainstream Protestants and Catholics, up until very recently, have overwhelmingly voted for my party.

And -- but I think, look, my dad used to have an expression: Don't tell me what your values are. Show me your budget.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Show me your deeds.

And I think that one of the problems we Democrats have had is, we have not come off as not being people of faith. We have come off as being almost agnostic.

And we are a spiritual nation. We are a nation that was founded upon -- the only nation I can think that was founded upon the notion that there is a -- a -- that there is a God. We hold these truths self-evident, that all men are created equal, et cetera.

And, so, I think, what has happened with the Democratic Party, there's been this reluctance, in the face of the evangelical, judgmental movement on the far right in the past, of even invoking religion, for fear of being put in the same category. But we're a spiritual nation. We're a nation of faith.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing some of that with us tonight.

Senator Joe Biden, thanks...

BIDEN: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... again for your time.

Source