U.N. Media Stakeout with Senators Joe Biden (D-DE), Ben Cardin (D-MD) and Bob Corker (R-TN)
Interview
U.N. Media Stakeout with Senators Joe Biden (D-DE), Ben Cardin (D-MD) and Bob Corker (R-TN)
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SEN. BIDEN: Gentlemen, come on up.
Hello. My name is Joe Biden and I'm here with two of my colleagues. We had -- can you all -- oh, I'm sorry.
And we came up to meet the secretary-general. We just came out of a meeting with the president of the General-Assembly, as well as meeting with permanent members of the Security Council and we raised a number of issues. We were here to listen, as well as to speak. We asked a lot of questions.
Issues that we raised in each of the meetings related to basically the hotspots that are of concern here at the United Nations: Darfur, Iran, the situation in Lebanon. We even raised -- I raised some questions about Iraq. But we had -- we got, as they say in diplomatic circles -- we had frank and open exchange on these issues, but it was very useful. It was very useful.
And one of the other things we talked about was U.N. reform. But I also pointed out to each of the -- our interlocutors -- that the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is going to be taking up a resolution providing for full funding of the United Nations to deal with what our arrearages are, with the cooperation of the administration. I expect to pass that out of the committee this week and hopefully in the next -- in the intervening period of the budget process that we will be able to resolve that issue.
But we had, as I said, we had good meetings. And the general point conveyed by us, as well as conveyed to us, is that the United States needs the United Nations and the United Nations needs the United States. And there is a process of adjusting to a very much changed world here. And the question is, will the institution be able to do that?
But let me yield to my colleagues for any comments they may have and then we'll take a few questions.
(Cross talk.)
SEN. BEN CARDIN: Ben Cardin. I'm the senator from Maryland.
First, let me thank Senator Biden, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, for arranging for us to come up to the United Nations. I think it was important. What we stressed, of course, is strengthening the relationship between the United States and the United Nations -- and also strengthening the ties between the Congress and the United Nations.
We mentioned a lot of issues. I'm just going to emphasize one I think was the most urgent and that is the Darfur solution and moving forward and getting the troops on the ground -- the hybrid troops. That needs to take place as quickly as possible. And I must tell you, I was encouraged by the comments I've heard from the leadership here at the United Nations.
SEN. CORKER: As a new member of the Foreign Relations Committee, I've found this to be a very -- a great trip to gain some understandings. I especially enjoyed meeting with the secretary- general, and certainly the president of the General Assembly. But I think the meeting we had with the other permanent members of the Security Council was probably most enlightening to me.
As my colleagues have mentioned, certainly the specifics of Kosovo and Lebanon and Darfur certainly were discussed. But I think just the overall effectiveness of the United Nations in dealing with the big issues of our day. And the fact that it is important, especially with the conflicts and the issues that we have around the country, that the United Nations be effective in that regard.
But again, our ambassador -- certainly as he does in every venue he goes to -- is very popular and very well received here. We're glad to be with him and certainly found this morning's meetings to be very productive.
Q Senator Biden, could you please brief us on your discussions on Darfur? What did you ask the secretary-general to do concerning sanctions or something over these lines?
SEN. BIDEN: Well, the three of us were -- we wanted to -- the secretary-general had asked for more time. And he indicated to us what his efforts have been with Khartoum and at what stage things had progressed. The three of us -- and we had another one of our colleagues who had to leave who was with as well, Senator Coleman -- we made it very clear that this was of the highest priority in a bipartisan way in the United States Congress. There was genocide taking place, that both Phase II and Phase III of the U.N. resolution should be implemented immediately. We discussed how much time it would take to actually have a force of 23,000 people, starting with 17,000 hybrid force. We even went into detail about what the command- and-control would be and the role of the United Nations in that effort. And there seemed to be a mutual sense of urgency both at the Security Council level, as well as with the secretary-general.
And he had indicated that he has made this a priority and we had slightly different -- not views, but nuanced assertions each of us made. But the bottom line was this: That there's genocide taking place. The consensus among the American delegation, bipartisan delegation here, was that we cannot wait five or six or seven months for there to be any action taken on the ground. There is a need to deal with stemming the bleeding. We know there's a need for a political solution, but you must stem the bleeding now. I've been there. I've been -- as others have -- I've been in Chad. I've been in the camps. I've met with the rebels. I have -- it is a disastrous, urgent situation that the international community has an obligation to respond to.
Yes, ma'am?
Q Senator Biden, you mentioned that there's a bill for full funding of the U.N. And I'm wondering if you can specifically comment on whether that includes the peacekeeping -- the mounting deficit to peacekeeping.
SEN. BIDEN: Yes, it does.
Q And how much are looking to -- what kind of money are you looking at and what kind of timetable?
SEN. BIDEN: The timetable is immediate. In other words, we would try to pass it for this fiscal year. And I don't have in mind the exact number. My staff would ask -- what was the number?
STAFF: (Off mike.)
SEN. BIDEN: One hundred and thirteen million (dollars). But the more important point is to agree to the 27 percent than it is merely to -- one is to deal with the arrears, the other is to make sure we don't further create, as we go forward, arrearages. And so, the biggest ticket item will be moving from 25 to 27.
Yes, ma'am.
Q Senator, thank you very much.
You discussed -- you said that you discussed Lebanon with the secretary-general. Can you -- how much are you concerned about the situation right now in Lebanon?
SEN. BIDEN: Well, I'm not going to answer all the questions. I should let my colleagues answer them as well. But we're very concerned about the situation in Lebanon. And one of the things that Senator Cardin -- I'll ask him to speak to this -- raised in each venue was the Lebanese-Syrian border and weapons and material coming across that border.
But do you want to speak to that, Ben?
SEN. CARDIN: The United Nations has a mandate in Lebanon to allow the Lebanese to be able to control their country. We're obviously concerned about the most recent violence that's taken place and we're concerned about the loss of life and hope that that circumstance will be stabilized.
The ongoing problem is the porous borders between Syria and Lebanon and Lebanon's ability to keep illegal arms out of their country and support of terrorist groups. And I was pleased the response that I've gotten from the U.N. leadership that they understand this and are trying to work with the Lebanese and Syrians to work for an effective solution.
(Cross talk)
Q -- spoke about these finances. These same group are financed by Mr. Hariri himself and his group. The (fatalists ?) are financed, as Mr. (Semler?) said it in his recent report in The New Yorker, that these groups by financed by Hariri and the Saudis.
SEN. BIDEN: Well, we are concerned. I'm very concerned. I think our country's concerned. The United Nations should be concerned about outside influences in Lebanon, and the financing of terrorist organization -- extreme organizations. I think our top priority is to try to do something about the Syrian-Lebanese border in that regard. But we still have a significant problem of stability within that country and the ability of Lebanese to control their activities. But we want to work with them, and we certainly want outside support for terrorist groups stopped.
(Cross talk.)
Q Senators, on Sudan --
SEN. BIDEN: Okay.
Q -- on Sudan, the real question is you want action, you want to stem the bleeding right now. Without the consent of the government of Sudan, how can you do this and what is the United States prepared to do?
SEN. BIDEN: I cannot speak for the president, and I will not speak for the president or attempt to. The ambassador can. But the president has made it clear that sanctions -- increased sanctions are the next step is there is -- no action is taken by consent from Sudan. I have a different view. I think nations at some point cede their sovereignty. When they engage in genocide, they forfeit their sovereignty. That's speaking for Joe Biden -- Senator Biden, no one else. And were I able to make the decision, I would impose a no-fly zone immediately, and I would commit forces to stop the Janjawid now. But I am not making that decision. That is the decision the president will have to make.
But I do think that one of the things the international community's going to have to deal with over the next several years -- starting with the Permanent Five and the Security Council writ large and then the General Assembly -- is what constitutes the forfeiture of sovereignty? And I'm of the view that -- were I making the case, that when the international community concludes that a government is engaged in and/or allowing to happen within its borders genocidal behavior, its forfeits its sovereignty, giving the international community the right under international law to take action if it deemed fit to take action.
(Cross talk.)
Q Senator Biden, when you were talking about --
SEN. BIDEN: (Darfur ?)
Q Troops just now, were you talking about our troops -- American troops -- on having --
SEN. BIDEN: Joe Biden was, yes.
Q Joe Biden was, okay.
SEN. BIDEN: Joe Biden, not the president.
Q Second -- okay, secondly, what did the -- what timeline did you get for the second and third phase if Sudan approves -- well, they've approved the second --
(Cross talk.)
SEN. BIDEN: Well, the hope was expressed that we would get consent -- that the international community would get consent -- the U.N. would get consent from the government to begin to implement that right away. But it would take time. It would take some months for that to actually get troops on the ground, get troops actually engaged in this peacekeeping effort. But the hope was that there would be a consent to begin that process relatively soon. That was the hope expressed by the secretary general.
(Cross talk.)
Q Senator, a follow-up on Darfur on that question. Did he indicate that President Bashir has given him assurances recently that he would do this? And also, you mentioned that you'd discussed about how long it would take for the 23,000 troops to full hybrid. How long did he say that would take?
SEN. BIDEN: I will not speak to the first question. On the second question, as a practical manner, it was viewed that it would probably take some number of months. Less than a year, but some number of months.
Q Senator, about the peacekeeping budget, there's a $25 -- 25 percent --
SEN. BIDEN: Twenty-five? I've got it right here. Twenty-five dollars.
Q Twenty-five -- can I have it?
SEN. BIDEN: Yes, you can.
Q Twenty-five percent cap that was exerted by Congress. Can you talk about that?
SEN. BIDEN: Yes, that's --
Q Because the U.N. --
SEN. BIDEN: I'm going to lift -- I'm attempting to lift the cap.
Q And get a new cap or just --
SEN. BIDEN: Yes.
Q -- open the sky?
(Cross talk)
SEN. BIDEN: -- no, no. Not unless you're willing to throw in your fortune, we're not going to open to the sky.
Q I've got $25.
SEN. BIDEN: But as -- no. What we're attempting to do is move it to 27 percent.
Q Senator, are you satisfied with the dynamics on Kosovo -- how it's going here at the United Nations in the Security Council? Would you like to see it more -- going --
SEN. BIDEN: I am -- again, speaking only for myself and this will be one more -- my press secretary was supposed to tell you one more question five questions ago. But -- (laughter) -- one of the things that -- to respond to your question, speaking for myself and I'd invite my colleagues to respond, there is a -- I was satisfied that there is a real sense of urgency. I was satisfied that a majority of the Security Council shares that sense of urgency, and I was hopeful that there is a possibility that the plan put forward would be adopted. So I'd come away feeling better than when I arrived, but still not certain of the outcome.
Anyone else want to comment?
Q Senator, what place do you see generally for legislative initiative or participation in foreign policy, and what do you think of the speaker's efforts in this regard and the Republican reaction to them?
SEN. BIDEN: Yes, yes and no. (Laughter.)
Thank you all very much.
(Cross talk.)
SEN. CORKER: No, this -- I do want to make -- I'm glad you brought that up. This -- while I respect, certainly, and associate myself with some of the comments that were made here, this was not -- we were not here to gather to put forth the comments that Senator Biden just said. Those were individual comments made by him. They do not represent, certainly, the group. But I respect his viewpoint.
Q But do you disagree?
SEN. CORKER: Well, I think I want to look at -- I haven't seen his legislation yet. I don't want to be standing here and necessarily associate myself with that effort, but --
Q (Inaudible) -- 25 percent cap?
SEN. CORKER: We will see very soon. We'll see very soon.
Part of today was actually asking questions about reforms, asking questions about the United Nations being more relevant in solving some of these issues in Darfur, in Kosovo, in Lebanon and talking about the Gaza Strip. So part of me being here today was to be able to actually make those kinds of judgments and certainly, while I appreciate the comments made today, they no -- they in no way represented the views of all of us here.
Q Senator, on U.N. reform, did this issue of the audit of UNDP in North Korea -- did this kind of -- did this come up? Or what other U.N. --
(Cross talk.)
SEN. CORKER: That was not touched upon as much as the other three issues we brought up today, and I have to catch a flight back to discuss immigration at the Capitol.
Thank you all very much.
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